kocio has commented on the following diary entries

Post When Comment
Mapping in St Albans, VIC 25 days ago

This is a problem of a project that was born in UK... For example in Poland we have something like "milky bar", but there is no popular tag for that.

I think you could talk about this on Tagging list to create some standard for Eastern amenities, it would be great to have some kind of standard not limited by UK/Western types:

Mapping in St Albans, VIC 27 days ago

My thumb rule is size - if there are wheeled baskets, then it's supermarket, otherwise (hand basket, no basket) it's convenience.

For me it's rather amenity than shop, so I tried amenity=coffee, but I''m not sure.

Mapping in St Albans, VIC 27 days ago


I think that most "supermarkets" there are convenience shops, like this one:

BTW: how do you tag bubble tea shops?

OpenStreetMap Carto - my thoughts on development (part 1) 2 months ago

Thanks for your comment, Joseph!

I used to think about diversity just like that - that it's Europe/USA vs rest of the world. But now I think about urban/rural differences. Big city in Asia is more similar to big city in Canada than forest areas in Canada. More and more people tend to live in cities around the world.

I also believe HOT style is more suitable for depicting remote areas. It's also volunteer-based style and they show much less objects, so it should be easier there:

And I'm talking only about density of objects and initial zoom levels here. I hope to show some objects that are frequently used in developing countries, like water wells for example:

If there are other similar things, I'm happy to show them too.

Towards a dedicated public issue tracking/project management system for OSM 2 months ago

I have no clear opinion on that, but this is right question to ask, thanks!

OpenStreetMap Carto - my thoughts on development (part 2) 3 months ago

Typical size is just one hint I wrote about. There is also relative size, typical usage etc.

OpenStreetMap Carto - my thoughts on development (part 2) 3 months ago

I guess this comment is rather for previous article, because it was about urban/rural distinction. How does it relate to this entry?

Mistake in map alignment. I'm sorry, can I revert that? 3 months ago

I'm not sure, I only know changeset reverter. Please ask here for example:

Sharing from my first State of the Map – SotM 2018 3 months ago

There is also one paragraph in Spanish to remove. :)

Mistake in map alignment. I'm sorry, can I revert that? 3 months ago

The problem is that all of them generate some conflicts, so I'm not sure what could go wrong. I guess the best thing would be if you make manual corrections to avoid breaking things.

Reverting is OK for elements which has not been altered later - it's produces normal changeset, but with opposite actions. If there were some other actions later, it become complicated.

Mistake in map alignment. I'm sorry, can I revert that? 3 months ago


You can post bad changesets numbers, so I could do it using JOSM.

Developer wanted for CartoCSS 3 months ago

As far as i know it's not, and I even tried once, but I don't remember what is the main problem. Does it work with your fork?

On Vector Tiles 4 months ago

I wonder what do you think about Maputnik? It's a free map editor using Mapbox GL. Do you envision using it directly, using it as a base for much simpler user interface, or maybe you don't think it's suitable for this task? I remember that iD was based on Potlatch 2 architecture, and it still took 0,5 mln USD and months of work for a start.

Any other, probably more detailed/technical thoughts?

When thinking about "showcase of OSM capabilities", I see mainly how rich OSM data are, and that is what I would try to show.

On Vector Tiles 4 months ago

Map builder is a nice idea, that's also what I want to have on OSM website eventually. OSM Carto conversion to vector is a step in this direction, but it's always good to make migration smooth and that's I think it's needed. Another huge problem is hardware - we don't have too much of it - and the team who would be able and willing to create such map builder. Do you have the idea how should we approach it?

I think it's time to talk about details, not just general visions. I made a special subforum on rendering maps with vector thread in it - I suggest discussing things there:

OpenStreetMap Carto release v4.12.0 5 months ago

Bugfix release v4.12.1 has been published, it just removes surface tag rendering due to severe performance problems:

Not Yours, OpenStreetMap 6 months ago

I still don't see anything in the OSM data model that is "incompatible" with good cartography. Sometimes there are just shortcomings of the tools we use, sometimes tags are too vague and lack some details, and it can be quite irritating, but the data model is sane for me. Maybe it's just the language you used in this entry, which is emotional (it's fine for me, it's your diary after all, I just wanted to make things clear).

I also understand why it's easy to get something personal - in some cases there are just a few people involved. For example: if I would say "half of the osm-carto developers thinks that...", it means exactly 4 persons in our team and I could name them easily. :-)

Not Yours, OpenStreetMap 6 months ago

It might be preferred to have less elements on the map. In my opinion Google designed their map to be sketchy, because this is meant to be just location map. Their strength is full integrated geo stack, not the map itself.

So it's easy to find OSM styles that are similar to GMaps (OSM Bright, Wikimedia Brighmed, Mapbox Streets...), but it's hard to compete with GMaps+Google routing+aerial images+Street View+being default on Android devices+sponsored POIs (I guess).

Not Yours, OpenStreetMap 6 months ago

Hi, Zverik,

As one of the mapping style developers, I have difficulty getting your point regarding it:

But now it’s obvious that nobody knows where to go next.

In multiple directions, because no single one is good for everybody.

It's painful to look at developers’ attempts to continue, especially this year: they fruitlessly try to change established tagging principles, because the OSM data model is incompatible with good carthography.

Which examples do you mean? There are tags that are better and worse when trying to render them, but I don't see any fundamental problem with the OSM data model.

We reached the ceiling of the rendering stack made five years ago.

It looks quite limited to me, sure, but still extendable.

The only way out is to throw it all away and start anew — exactly what authors are discussing these days.

There's more than one way. Paul made a fresh new style and toolset (Bolder) and might add more features to the point where he's happy with the amount of rendered objects. At the same time Andy is proposing evolutionary way instead - just adding intermediate vector phase, which allows rendering multiple versions based on the osm-carto.

Both ways can coexist on the same hardware, but even if that's not possible, they can be developed in parallel, as many other styles and solutions.

Maybe I'm missing something you wanted to say, but from my point of view we're now in a good point for OSM map styles to grow into healthy, diverse ecosystem.

Bolder - Starting a new client-side OpenStreetMap style 7 months ago

Great, nice to see new approach here!

The announcement lacks the link to repository in the prominent place, I have found it through the issue ticket link in the last section.

The announcement also started a discussion at Dev list (just one comment currently):

OpenStreetMap Carto release v4.10.0 7 months ago

We look for a coder to help us fight with spam: