OpenStreetMap

Follow up to "Potential Improvements" for the HOT process.

Posted by mariotomo on 16 August 2021 in English. Last updated on 18 August 2021.

This is a follow-up to a pedrito1414 diary entry on Silvester 2020, which itself, at least from my point of view, was a follow-up to a IRC chat the two of us held on 2020-12-15.

From our chat Pete distilled a short list of nine more or less urgent “issues to address / aspects to improve”. We’re 8 months later and a few days ago I downloaded the online HOT projects summaries, to choose some statistics that might let us measure the process and how it has been improving. Of these 9 points I think that the easiest to measure are #6: “TM projects don’t always get closed out” and #2: “Tasking manager transparency - project creators”.

Let’s start from #6 about non closed projects.

The one thing that HOT is not doing, they are not systematically setting a limit to the projects they host nor directly run: of the 3009 still active projects, 2848 (94%) does not have a due date. for the 587 projects that have been created this year 2021, 460 (78%) does not have a due date. it is a small improvement. limiting this to directly HOT owned projects, it’s a total of 315, of which 297 (94%) do not have a due date. This year it’s 111 projects directly owned by HOT, 94 (85%) of which without due date.

I’ll mention the two top outliers, which did set a due date goal for all their projects: osm-libya (37 projects) and unique-mappers-network-nigeria (5 projects).

Without a due date, it’s easy to let things slip through your fingers, so no surprise there’s still 2 open projects from 2012, 24 from 2013, 27 from 2014, and a total of 1378 unclosed projects published before 2020.

The other issue, #2 about project creators, in my opinion it has to do with local involvement, or lack thereof.

In Panama I observed that projects on the HOT TM server have always been started without first attempting to use the official channels nor to contact the top local mappers or peruse the channels most used by local mappers for informal communication. in 2021 HOT supported Rory Nealon from YouthMappersInternational create two projects (10318 and 10361) next to each other near Chitré, in the Azuero Peninsula. By the way, Rory is the other person who was involved in the identification of issues to address. Maybe I contributed to making the local Youth Mappers Chapter YMUP feel under pressure, and I’m glad to observe that these two projects have both achieved an exemplary percentage of mapped and validated. The validation process was ran remotely by four non local mappers, all of which accepting feedback I provided as comment to their changesets. An other step would be Evaluating the completed projects, maybe something for subsequent process improvement.

Charlie, a local mapper from Belize, even less “Latino” than myself, let’s say we possibly share some sort of “Hanseatic” point of view, after some chat about remote mappers, gave me the idea I could have a look at Belize. I found 8 open projects, 6 of which opened in 2020, all owned by SColchester from ‘hot’. Charlie had told me, and I could confirm his complaints, that these projects were attracting unchecked low quality edits to areas he and an other local mapper are slowly but carefully digitising. I contacted the project author SColchester, commenting on one of the projects, telling him of the local complaints, and he pointed me to two web pages (1 and 2) where I could follow their Organised Editing action. I find these pages overly generic, and they state that the campaign was already closed. still the 6 projects stand at an average validation of less than 15%, and contained among other beginners’ blunders: trees, trucks, and albedo patches mapped as buildings, and several repeated objects even within the same changeset. Things that happen, but things that should trigger feedback from the organisation to the mapper, preferably before the mapper disappears from OSM.

I corrected a few errors, and commented to the authors (all of them touch-and-go, one-day-butterflies), and I tried to do so in the most constructive way (1, 2, 3, 4). Still it’s my opinion that it should be the project owner providing this feedback and if they do not have the time that they should delegate someone to the task.

The difficulty in doing the above, it’s in the numbers:

organization author published projects
operation-fistula Privatemajory 117
american-red-cross edircksen 131
medecins-sans-frontieres-msf Jorieke V 142
hot SColchester 191
integration-consulting-group felixhohl 483

After Belize, I thought I would have a look at whatever new projects were being opened in the area, and I found a staggering 21 new ‘hot’ projects, all owned by ‘SColchester’, in Guatemala. In the Telegram OSMLatam chat I asked if there were anybody from Guatemala who wanted to comment about it, and I got an answer from HOT voting-member ‘mapeadora’, who told me I should stop my witch hunt, that people from Guatemala are clearly involved, and that I should change subject. I did inquire whether and where this project was on the Wiki and she doesn’t know, because it hasn’t started yet, and that my attitude made things all more difficult. So I let go of the OSMLatam chat and go back to the statistics. There’s no ‘DRAFTS’ in Guatemala for 2021, only these 21 ‘PUBLISHED’ projects, part of the OpenCities LAC campaign, 99% mapped, 12% validated. And back to my question whether they are on the Wiki, no, they aren’t. I’m sure they are finely mapped, I didn’t check that, and to tell the truth, I lost interest in helping Guatemala.

Let’s hope the OpenCities LAC campaign will come out of the closet soon, at least before it triggers projects in my areas of concern.

And yes, I know very well, I’m not good at saying things in a pleasant way. I’m sorry, all I say is in good faith and with the goal to improve the process. I also assume or worse expect good faith in others.

Discussion

Comment from CharliePlett on 16 August 2021 at 18:22

Hey, thanks for this very detailed report covering the problems that open projects leave. It is good to pressure organizations sometimes so that they can improve their services to our community

And yes, it is always good to first be in contact with local contributors, so that we know what’s happening around us at all times..

Comment from rtbk on 18 August 2021 at 20:30

Great insight and good food for thought. When I started mapping I did wonder about the number of open projects on hot and that there appeared to be a lack of follow up on the projects. It’s good to see there is some movement on closing some off.

Comment from pedrito1414 on 18 August 2021 at 20:53

Hi Mario, thanks for the post. Will respond more fully very soon, but just wanted to flag this message on the HOT mailing list from a week ago

Long story short… Beyond the small improvement you mention, the HOT data quality working group is right now actively cleaning up and archiving old projects on the Tasking Manager (as well as developing a policy for ongoing project gardening).

More to come…

Comment from JJIglesias on 22 August 2021 at 18:39

Hi Mario. Your report is quite clear however they may be people who do not liked what you said. I am against that Hot and other project “requester” start ANY mapping project without the local community approval and consensus. Two of the projects in my country were bad outlined, unconsulted, and produce more bad that good in the area mapped, and require extensive re-doing. As well both projects become “orphans” and nobody care about, and there are still active in the Tasking Manager, without any reason.

Comment from mariotomo on 22 August 2021 at 20:54

Hi JJIglesias, thanks for writing here. I have done my best in the above text not to present my opinion, but to gather facts, numeric information that will tell us a story. if people don’t like these facts, I see two possible reactions: you can do as pedrito1414 is telling us: work at the process with an eye at these indicators. the other option is to “kill the messenger”. the two strategies are not equally effective at reducing the amount of complains you will hear: the first will trigger more requests to further improve your process, while the second is more likely to end it there.

Comment from mariotomo on 5 September 2021 at 17:28

good day @pedrito1414,

somehow I thought you mentioned a deadline, and no I don’t find it back. was it my wishful thinking, that I recall reading a “September 1st”?

anyhow, I hope you can give us an idea how long it’s going to take your organization, to clean up the tasking manager database. so we can help you reviewing your work. — please don’t come too close to the next ESRI GisDay! (as of today, and limiting to projects older than #7600 — opened 2019-12-20—, you’re still hosting 1814 “PUBLISHED” projects, of which “hot” directly owns 88.)

(my first impact with the hot tasking manager was because of project 4917, which had been created by @bgirardot for “youthmappers”. that project was closed without an evaluation …) I saw @bgirardot on your database associated to active projects, so I contacted him again by internal OSM mail, and he confirmed he’s not any more active on HOT nor YouthMappers. he’s still “author” (owner) of 30 “hot” projects, 2 “youthmappers” projects, plus several by other organizations. I obviously did not contact each and every other lost author, just the one I happened to meet with relation to Panama.

something else which I’m not sure I understand … when a project reaches 100% mapped and 100% validated, …, what is the next step according to you?

ideally, I would hope there came an evaluation, like let’s use the experience to make our next project even better, building on the positive parts and not repeating the mistakes.

I do understand that not all projects are “hot”, that most belong to other organizations, but as the hosting organization, you as “hot” do agree with my above “ideally”? if so, what are the practical consequences?

(what about projects with no validation activity during, say, the last 6 months?)

my sincere and utmost constructive regards,

Mario Frasca

Comment from CourtneyMClark on 27 September 2021 at 20:57

I have archived task #1957, per your request. I gave permission to someone from a working group, I don’t remember which one, to archive any open tasks under my username. This was several months ago, and unfortunately I didn’t realize that they had not yet done so. Thank you for letting me know.

Comment from mariotomo on 27 September 2021 at 23:48

Hi CourtneyMClark,

Thanks for the follow-up here in this page. My writing to you was definitely not meant as a “request” —I would not dare!— more as you said later, for letting you know.

While it stays open, I will occasionally come back to this sleeping issue and check how it follows. The updated statistics say:

  • 1451 open projects prior to 2020-01,
  • 400 of which 100% mapped and validated,
  • of the 1451, 80 are directly owned by hot,
  • of the 400 100% mapped and validated but still open, 7 are directly hot.
  • not-any-more-involved bgirardot is still owner of 28 “hot” published projects,
  • among his projects, 21 are 0% validated and only #4762 is 100% mapped and validated.

Comment from mariotomo on 17 October 2021 at 23:06

in one month from today 2021-10-17 ESRI will be celebrating their GIS Day, reason enough for a new update. my reports from this data were not looking particularly consistent, so I’ve written a small script to improve repeatability, and I need to update the results for the previous dates:

2021-08-16

  • archived projects, prior to 2020-01: 4369
  • projects still open, prior to 2020-01: 1710
  • … of which 100% mapped and validated: 392
  • open projects, prior to 2020-01, directly owned by hot: 87
  • … of which 100% mapped and validated: 12
  • not-any-more-active bgirardot still owns ‘hot’ projects: 28
  • … of his projects, 0% validated: 21

2021-09-05

  • archived projects, prior to 2020-01: 4376
  • projects still open, prior to 2020-01: 1703
  • … of which 100% mapped and validated: 390
  • open projects, prior to 2020-01, directly owned by hot: 86
  • … of which 100% mapped and validated: 11
  • not-any-more-active bgirardot still owns ‘hot’ projects: 28
  • … of his projects, 0% validated: 21

2021-09-27

  • archived projects, prior to 2020-01: 4411
  • projects still open, prior to 2020-01: 1661
  • … of which 100% mapped and validated: 387
  • open projects, prior to 2020-01, directly owned by hot: 86
  • … of which 100% mapped and validated: 11
  • not-any-more-active bgirardot still owns ‘hot’ projects: 28
  • … of his projects, 0% validated: 21
  • CourtneyMClark archived/not-archived projects: 115/29

2021-10-17

  • archived projects, prior to 2020-01: 4423
  • projects still open, prior to 2020-01: 1654
  • … of which 100% mapped and validated: 386
  • open projects, prior to 2020-01, directly owned by hot: 86
  • … of which 100% mapped and validated: 11
  • not-any-more-active bgirardot still owns ‘hot’ projects: 28
  • … of his projects, 0% validated: 21
  • CourtneyMClark archived/not-archived projects: 117/27

for some reason, Rory Nealon has archived “bang-boom” all HOT-hosted YouthMappers projects in Panamá. this does sound like there won’t be any evaluation, and I do hope I’ll be proven wrong. but this is a YouthMappers issue, it is not a HOT problem, or is it?

Comment from mariotomo on 26 April 2022 at 20:04

I guess the goal was to make one lose interest.

HOT, you win.

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