joost schouppe has commented on the following diary entries

Post When Comment
Tweaking the OSM-And routing engine 18 days ago

The link to your custom routing XML is broken. My playthings are here: Includes “prefer cycle routes when driving by car” (because they tend to be scenic and you want to drive slow), “prefer country roads” (because you are just cruising and only want to get to your destination eventually) and “radical hiking” (which will make detours to allow for as much paths as possible)

OSMF membership rates by country about 2 months ago

So Heather - does your statement mean that you think proportional representation of the OSM community in the OSMF membership is not important?

imagico, does your questions mean that you think that stating “A is important” implies “B is not important”? Color me surprised.

note that my statement that a large number of the new mappers in the US

Thanks for clarifying, Simon.

Whilst some worry about the last column having values well in excess of 100, others worry about the last column having numbers far less than 100. Personally I have no issue with come countries “raising the bar” - it encourages others to get involved too.

That’s a bit happy-go-lucky, Rob. I think the relative advantage (native) English speakers have in having their voice heard is something serious. I’d love to see more research investigating the possible link between mapping community size and level of English in a country. And as well the impact on the correlation between mapping community size and OSMF membership. The privileged need to understand their privilege if they want to lift the rest to their level. Otherwise they risk building something that is only relevant to people like them. I count myself among the privileged BTW, since my native language Dutch is (on a global scale) extremely close to English. But being Belgian, the language issue is of course something you are confronted with on a daily basis. This is part of a wider issue I think. The medium is the message, right? For example, maybe part of why OSMF is such a “political” place, is that we choose a medium (mailing lists) which are excelent for people who like deep thinking, but aren’t great for involving people with a more occasional involvement (e.g. the easy participation of upvoting in Reddit).

but country names are followed by “LC” if they are an OSMF local chapter

That’s an interesting addition, Gregory. In Belgium, there’s no membership fee, but straight from our chatroom I saw a nice example. Someone saying they rather pay a donation to OSMbe rather than OSMF, because OSMbe are people they know and trust, and OSMF is seen as a more “political” organisation. Anyway, i wouldn’t expect a perfect correlation between LC and representation, since large part of their being a LC or not is the result of individual action (e.g. having people crazy enough to build an organisation)

OSMF membership rates by country 2 months ago

@seandebasti: there have been tries before of what you seem to want. The latest project was quite succesful and is even integrated into the ID-editor. It’s this project: Jonathan Beliën turned it into a website: And there’s talk about making it into a map too:

OSMF membership rates by country 2 months ago

Exactly: let’s not forget to talk about the lack of representation from Tanzania, Ukraine, Iran, Iraq, Thailand and Vietnam - to just name a few countries with a lot of mappers and not a single OSMF member…

OSMF membership rates by country 2 months ago

My suspicion already was

Exactly the point of statistics: confirming (and occasionally disproving) suspisions :)

As Simon for example pointed out a much larger portion of mapping activities in the US seem of commercial nature compared to most of Europe

I think that’s a bit of a broad conclusion to base on the stated evidence. There is also a significant drop in other countries. And it might just be that US Americans have a greater tendency to map at work or busier weekends. Making a more sensitive indicator of “probable hobby mappers” vs “probable commercial mappers” would of course be useful.

For further analysis, I would personally be most interested in the correlation between representativeness and English proficiency.

Towards a dedicated public issue tracking/project management system for OSM 2 months ago

I don’t agree with your assumption that github-style systems are uncomfortable for non-developpers. I can speak from personal experience, since I’m not a developper. The strength of the Github system is exactly the interface between the “code” and the users. But the code can just be a currated document, or even an Excel file! I have been introducing Github to a lot of people in the government sector, because it is the easiest way to introduce them to open source logics for collaborating openly accross organisations. Mind you that we’re not talking about git -at all-, we just use the web interface. With osmbe we just set up our first GitLab account recently, for practical, not philosophical reasons. The web interface lacks some of the sexyness of Github, but it might be good enough to be an alternative to us non-developpers. But is GitLab open enough?

Communication channels about 1 year ago

I didn’t mean to disagree, Verdy. It’s more like this: - high volume discussion: Riot - wider mapper participation: talk-be mailing list - outreach: - mapper/data-user documentation: wiki pages

I think we do a reasonable job managing the Belgian wiki pages, but I’d be interested to hear if and how you think our use of it differs from what you’d like to see.

Communication channels about 1 year ago

Sadless74 points to a very relavant discussion. The main problem is there is no obvious solution, and “showing leadership” and deciding already has the risk of betting on the wrong horse.

We’ve used the OSMF Slack for a while with the Belgian community, but since moved on because a) Slack is invite-only unless you set up some sort of self-subscribe server, b) our open source radicals didn’t like us to use it. We migrated to Riot (matrix), which is kind of cool. It has a lot of the feautres of Slack (though it is missing a few interesting ones), and it has a smartphone app. Oh, and we just set up a bridge to IRC to cater to that school. Still it is an application that feels a bit weird to people who aren’t very “techy”, and we are still thinking about another migration. I guess the biggest missing feature is a way to keep the channels united, and still have a manageable flow of conversation.

As Verdy points out, there is a need for summarizing. Places like Slack, Riot and Telegram are very high volume, and allow for fast discussions. However, they can become an echo chamber of the very hard core. Hence some extra work: summarizing and documenting what has been said, and getting wider participation when necessary. The Wiki is a good place to canonize, but for us the place for that wider participation is still the Belgian mailing list. Maybe it’s a good development, since it feels like that list has gone a little more quiet and easy to follow since we’ve moved to chat.

I think it would be interesting to bring all the points of view on the different chat-like channels together at a SotM workshop/birds of a feather, and see if we could come to some kind of common solution.

OpenStreetMap Notes: some interesting stats about 1 year ago

@mmd: thanks, I posted there

@math: to me that sounds a strange after first saying “Don’t use it to put your personal notes.” I’m a bit confused by the wording of that bullet point. Anyway, I don’t mind people doing that, in fact I find it mostly interesting because it might point to a need to make it easier to see your own un-closed notes (you have to go to a third party website now)

Proposal - OSMF Should Adopt a Code of Conduct about 1 year ago

There is too much going on in OSMF right now for me to form a definite opinion about whether or not we need a CoC, let alone whether or not to endorse this proposal.

Position statement for the December 2017 board election about 1 year ago

Hi Philippe, Sorry, I forgot about your question here! I don’t have any magic solutions on that. Where the OSMF maybe could help, is in collecting best practices about how to deal with these things. Maybe as well in empowering local communities that are doing their share of data curation. That said, I think we generally handle theses issues pretty well already. The biggest issue to me is vandalism that is hard to detect. And that it depends on very few people doing very much work. I’d like it very much if, as a community, we could work towards post-hoc validation of as many changesets as possible. Some restrictions on note creation might over time become necessary. The biggest problem I see there is a lack of responsiveness by note posters. Apps that leave anonymous notes or that leave notes where the authors are systematically unreachable might need some restrictions in the future. I’m actually working on an analysis of the global and local scale of that kind of problem.

The only phone that doesn't like cobblestone about 1 year ago

This is really awesome!

Evolving roads over 1 year ago

I used Ubuntu 14 something. I have a vagrant file that does most of the installing, would that help you? That one does install a very old Postgress version, I’m not sure it would work with a newer version too. There’s also a recent thread (in Spanish); in Chile someone played around with this tool too.

Participation biases in OSM: Survey now LIVE! over 1 year ago

There might be a smaller association between gender/sex and mapping habbits in OSM than expected, since women mapping in OSM are a small subset of women. The same of course goes for men. For example, there could be as much interest in mapping power lines among both male and female mappers, even if (say) in the general population there is much more general interest in power lines among men than women. The same goes with differences explained in the general population by educational attainment, age, income, whatever. Finding any effect at all would thus be quite significant.

The bias might not be in the mappers, but in missing the things that are of interest to the non-mapper. I would say a necessary step in a bias analysis is to define real world things as either male or female (good luck), find good spatial data about them (good luck) and compare them to what is mapped in OSM. But that process sounds a bit paternalistic (unless you can find things that are extremely gendered, like the feminine hygiene example) and possibly more likely to replicate the personality of the researcher than an actual bias. So again, good luck :)

Another approach could be to find some resource which measures the presence of people by gender (by old school counting people, or with some novel approach like sexing geolocalized twitter or flickr streams), and then “just” compare the completeness of the map between places with a more female or a more male presence.

DigitalGlobe Satellite Imagery Launch for OpenStreetMap over 1 year ago

This is really massive gift. I’ve heard from happy people in the Congo and Bolivia, and even here in Belgium it’s a great additional resource.

Missing Maps Mapathons as a recruiting instrument over 1 year ago

Well I’m brewing on a little article about our welcoming project. As we don’t do it all the time, we have an almost experimental setting going on to see if it has any effect.Which it doesn’t seem to have on first inspection. The problem with all this stuff is that you can’t expect it to have a real statistical impact; but your investment might occasionally have a huge return when you make the difference in turning a non-mapper to a heavy contributor. One or two of those outweigh your own time investment by a landslide. Thinking about one of the current OSM Belgium board members: he was recruited during a mapathon, but he’s not in the statistics above. Why? Because he was so interested in the whole thing that he made an edit a few days in advance, hence was not “a mapathon recruited mapper” in the above definition.

Market shares of editors almost 2 years ago

About 5% of changeset share; but yeah, it was kind of haphazard and it doesn’t add much to the graphs.

Market shares of editors almost 2 years ago

@simon and @ kevin: yep, I started off by sorting them by max market share over all the years. And maybe that .be aspect was part of it too :)

@Klumbumbus: that was the original plan, but then I started writing this thing instead. The images are on the wiki, so feel free to change that page.

Potlatch 2.5 almost 2 years ago

New version is online! The imagery has been updated (and some of those QA layers are gone again)

Beginning the mapping of Phoenixville, PA almost 2 years ago

Osmand has quite a few features to collect info on the go to (add POIs, add Notes, but also collect pictures and soundbits). But if you want to collect as much info as possible, OSMTracker is great. Vespucci is great if you want to do most of your edits live in the field.

Personally, I use Mapillary a lot for collecting information. That way, your pictures are available to any mapper, not just yourself. You can access them directly in iD and JOSM. And they even detect traffic signs automatically (available by default in iD).