OpenStreetMap

Harry Wood admin abuse. Do we need him as admin at wiki???

Posted by d1g on 17 September 2015 in English (English). Last updated on 21 September 2015.

Hi Harry! I’m XXZME. Goodbye your reputation.

You may know Harry Wood as one of the oldest members of OSM. What you don’t know is that he is terrible admin at wiki and ignores/resists any internationalization changes at wiki started by me AND SUPPORTED/TRANSLATED by other users at wiki.

Who I’m and my role at wiki.openstreetmap.org, mostly recent edits (last 0,5-1 year)

I hardly can explain my edit history even in 10 minutes or in a hours, sorry guys. Here is some points.

In numbers

I truly believe that they are irrelevant, but I must show MY portion of OSM wiki contributions.

I did 7000 edits to wiki.openstreetmap.org in hope that it will ease translation efforts and help begginners.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Special:Statistics states about 1,228,480 “Page edits since OpenStreetMap Wiki was set up”

Internationalization efforts

These pages are short and look unimportant at first. But ask yourself first:

  • why do they translated so quickly if they are unnecessary?
  • why does anyone wants to create/translate short pages like this? What is idea behind it?
  • why do they have no corrections to page in English?

These pages were born in agony of translators at wiki in multiple attempts to rationalize content for beginners at wiki.

Including work started by Cantho 1,5 years ago https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Wiki_organisation#Navigation_by_use-cases

I put significant effort to update Beginner’s guide and other newcomers pages https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Beginners%27_guide&action=history https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Contribute_map_data&action=history

including monsters like https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pick_your_data_collection_technique https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Data_collection_technique

Most of the portals at wiki are significantly reworked by me, see their history: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Portals

It took tremendous amount of time and work to me and https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Verdy_p to update terrible over-categorization at wiki and sort content for French-only, Ukrainian-only, Russian-only, Japanese-only readers.

I did significant update to Category:Categories and Category:OSM_Community with help of User:Verdy p.

My edits were based on https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/PeterIto significant improvements to top-level categories started 3-5 years ago.and unfinished changes by many other users started earlier (it may be unclear based just on edit history, but his edits indeed were slowly improving top-level categories).

Before making changes I reviewed not only their talk pages but edit history of most top-level categories and top pages at OSM Wiki and problems were repeatedly occurring during edits.

You can always check my edit history, but it will take significant time for you to understand everything based just on latest 300-500 edits.

YES I DID thousands of small and incremental edits to wiki. To reduce over-categorization and to reduce/lower amount of work REQUIRED to perform wiki translators/simplify further wiki maintenance.

Harry Wood never had interest in OSM being TRULLY international.

He constantly ignores DIRECT QUESTIONS to his admin role and his inaction.

Harry Wood abuse of human rights

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights#Freedom_of_speech

I’m simply not able to express myself in any form any more. My proficiency with any language is completely irrelevant because I cannot say a word after Harry Wood ban.

He silenced me AT MY OWN userpage and I’m not able answer to M!dgard and full-full requests from users or respond in reasonable manner. Even if it takes long discussion in broken English! https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Xxzme&diff=prev&oldid=1216981

I have contacted M!dgard and he said he is busy IRL and not able to join me with edits.

Harry Wood assault on my privacy

In addition to his silence to unpleasant questions directed to him he constantly assaults my privacy and left me with no other option but to respond in my diary, revealing my identity.

As the only argument he repeating himself with HIS OWN PAGE about what is “good” or “bad” in OpenStreetMap https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Xxzme&diff=next&oldid=1216972

He ignored fact that his “guide” is in “draft” stage and not really supported by anyone else except him.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Etiquette was explained before https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Etiquette&action=history his edits https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Community_Code_of_Conduct_(Draft)&action=history which is just copy&paste of Ubuntu guide.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Etiquette page never REQUIRED a user to reveal HIS PERSONAL INFORMATION.

Comment from 26eb5473101d742b174d730717409668 on 17 September 2015 at 14:03

Regarding freedom of speech:

Just like any other idiot on the internet who faces backlash for being stupid you fail to understand what freedom of speech is about. It protects you from the government deciding “this opinion is too dangerous to be allowed to be uttered in public”.

Two points are important there: It protects you from the government and in public space. It does not guarantee in any way what you can do in somebody else private space. If you are a guest at somebodies home and start talking shit about his mother you get punched in the face and get kicked out and that is perfectly fine with freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.

So OSM is in not way obliged to store and disseminate your rambling on server that they pay for. Be glad that you just get banned when ever you go completely of the rocker and don’t get punched in the face for it.

Invoking freedom of speech and human rights just shows your general lack of clue and usual disillusion of grandeur.

Comment from d1g on 17 September 2015 at 14:12

Just like any other idiot on the internet who faces backlash for being stupid you fail to understand what freedom of speech is about.

Exactly, I’m not going to protect Harry Wood or give him a miracle to admin wiki again.

Invoking freedom of speech and human rights just shows your general lack of clue and usual disillusion of grandeur.

You are wrong, this is minor theme of my post. Main message is that Harry Wood is clueless tard forcing his unsupported view as OpenStreetMap consensus or final decision made by admin.

Comment from gileri on 17 September 2015 at 14:18

d1g, I understand the reasoning behind your posts/comments, but please don’t insult people, even if you think they deserve it. It makes for a negative atmosphere for everyone, it does not contributes to the discussion and forces most of you readers to disregard your arguments completely even if there may be truth in them.

Comment from d1g on 17 September 2015 at 14:29

@gileri, I’m, sorry it’s a big stress for me.(from my POV/right now).

We should resolve technical problems at wiki first and decisions other “authoritative” person about how others should for them.

I truly believe that my edits were slowly improving content and they are supported, but number of translators/tools is limited right now to give you idea how my changes were improving content.

I never should I should ever defend number of my edits. Witch is just a fallacy Harry Wood not aware of, despite my attempts to reason his irrelevant words or statements.

Comment from d1g on 17 September 2015 at 14:44

We should resolve technical problems at wiki first and decisions other “authoritative” person about how others should for them. and decisions should be based ON VOTING OR PREVIOUS WORK and not by other “authoritative” person/wiki admin about how others should work for them “you are editing too fast”, “you are editing too much”, “you are translating too much” and so on.

Comment from pnorman on 17 September 2015 at 21:06

I truly believe that my edits were slowly improving content and they are supported

With repeated requests to permanently ban you after your 3 month ban expired, this is clearly not the view of many others.

Comment from robert on 17 September 2015 at 21:27

I’m not sure why you’re making this an ad hominem thing about Harry. You’re probably rationalizing things and convincing yourself that it’s Harry in particular that has a problem with you, and it couldn’t possibly be that you are doing anything wrong. You’d be very wrong in thinking this. Harry is just the caretaker.

If you really want to know how popular you are try popping up on IRC under your real name and air your views.

As for “Harry Wood never had interest in OSM being TRULLY international”, you clearly have never met him or really ever spoken with him. Or have any idea about him. I’m really appreciative that he does the work he does dealing with people like you so the rest of us don’t have to. From your attitude I can clearly see why this “xxzme” person people had been moaning about was so worth banning.

Thanks for all your hard work Harry!

Comment from d1g on 18 September 2015 at 03:14

With repeated requests to permanently ban you after your 3 month ban expired, this is clearly not the view of many others.

You forgot to mention it is the same person(!)s again and again. Oh yes, “repeated requests” are from abusive persons like Illya Zverev. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User_talk:Xxzme#.D0.A5.D0.B2.D0.B0.D1.82.D0.B8.D1.82.D0.BF.D0.BE.D1.80.D0.BE.D1.82.D1.8C.D0.BD.D0.B0.D1.88.D1.83_.D0.B2.D0.B8.D0.BA.D0.B8 You can find hid “requests” everywhere. From Russian forum to talk@ lists and IRC to online radios.

He hates me but I don’t care about him and his company.

Hind is the last person who PERMABANNED me at Russian forum last time http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=438644#p438644

You know what? Hind is not moderator/admin anymore. So as my hater Zverik who create band wagons at Russian forum after every edit he doesn’t understand at wiki (winch is like 1/3 of my edits to Russian namespace)..

Russian users decided don’t trust anyone who ban me and we need new admins at Russian forum.

As for “Harry Wood never had interest in OSM being TRULLY international”, you clearly have never met him or really ever spoken with him.

I don’t need to meet him in person. Speaking with Harry Wood is like speaking with wall. Please read my post HE IGNORED TWICE direct direct admin instructions to him

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AXxzme&diff=1212658&oldid=1212644 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AXxzme&diff=1216973&oldid=1216970

Which were initiated not by me! (we need database and wiki and translation extension or semanticwiki as alternative route).

I even suggested more simple solution wiki 2 weeks ago. As always, Harry ignored community request. Why bother with requests if there X0 open problems at wiki already???

Stupid request from XXZME will make me work and spend my precious time and nobody will notice what I’m doing.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AXxzme&diff=1212966&oldid=1212910

Except they are not. You can see that in every discussion about my ban terms I bring THE SAME technical questions about wiki? Why does Harry thinks it is safe to ignore them?

HIs actions, but rather INACTIONS, speak for him more. He does nothing to wiki or assists other edits.

Your miracle about good guy “Harry” maybe true somewhere else, but definitely not at wiki. We need more competent and dedicated person.

I’m not playing Ad homem, Harry doesn’t have to time to trully perform SYSOP/ADMIN role at wiki.openstreetmap.org.

If you really want to know how popular you are try popping up on IRC under your real name and air your views.

Why IRC? I see that my edits https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Essential_links_where_to_get_help&action=history

are popular at wiki among MULTIPLE translators.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=FR:Essential_links_where_to_get_help&action=history https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=NL:Essential_links_where_to_get_help&action=history https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Uk:Essential_links_where_to_get_help&action=history https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Ko:Essential_links_where_to_get_help&action=history https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=JA:Essential_links_where_to_get_help&action=history

I don’t need to present myself outside wiki, my edit history and speed of the translations appearing in short period of time (and supporting my edits) speaks for me.

Comment from andrewsh on 18 September 2015 at 09:26

@d1g, I honestly believe it’d be better for everyone if you just left.

Comment from d1g on 18 September 2015 at 10:06

@andrewsh, well I honestly don’t see how your opinion should be considered.

i don’t see your positive impact on OSM. No offence.

Do you have a single edit at wiki? Do you develop software? Do you translate editors? Do you translate wiki? Do you ever promote OSM?

You profile is empty https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/andrewsh

How and why your concerns should be respected? Explain your idea please.

Right now, I don’t have sympathy to you either your POV is absolutely unclear.

Background for who don’t know: one more hater

I DO REMEMBER your questionable edit in Russia! http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=26373 http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/24184292 - you were removing existing objects from database

Your edit is absolutely useless to Russia. STOP “helping” us with “spam”.

Comment from DaCor on 20 September 2015 at 07:28

@d1g First off, personal attacks are unnecessary. Your criticism of Harry is way off the mark.

I do not know you personally, but I know of you, or rather your alternate nick. I’m fully aware of why you were banned. Thats not a good thing. What I mean is, you are known to a large amount of people in OSM for all the wrong reasons.

Your edits were indeed useful and welcome (for the most part), however your attitude in dealing with others, as can be clearly seen by your reaction to each reply on this page, was, at best, abrasive, at worst, abusive.

If you were able to control your temper I would have no doubt you would be a massively useful member of the community, you clearly have a lot of energy and enthusiasm but you need to be able to work with people.

At the end of the day, OSM is a project of global collaboration. Part of collaboration is compromising with others. If you can not learn to collaborate then I don’t see a future for you here which would be sad

Comment from robert on 20 September 2015 at 16:14

@d1g: do you think anyone’s opinion should be heeded but your own? it doesn’t sound like it.

Comment from d1g on 20 September 2015 at 19:59

@DaCor

I’m not attacking Harry. He did and does great things as HOT member, but his statements about my “rudeness” can be drastically manipulated in either direction. Especially when you talk about me without real examples/links. You can easily create make propaganda, if you really have interest in this or just misunderstood my tone/language ability/or just missed something but considered that your thought as ultimate true under every condition.

I try to do my best and explain how his argumentation is wrong, but he constantly ignores my counter-arguments and ask me social questions which from his POV are relevant (he is CWG member/head).

Harry is biased and so I’m

Harry biased and he focused on topics “How to be nice with people”, “Lets resolve social interaction”.

And my head full of “How to update wiki”, “How to extend it”, “How to make in easy to translate”, “How to make it easy to manage”, “How not to go insane with current requirements at wiki”, “How to account stale translations”

My followers able to achieve 30-60K nodes PER 3 FIRST MONTHS.

How many of you can say that they are teaching techniques/tools so efficiently?

He constantly speaks in terms of his world and never mentions any of my topics or my problems. Do you see it better now?

M!dgard agrees with me

For example, M!dgard cannot join me with edits, because he said to be busy IRL right now and here is from PMs:

It’s a fact that keeping content up-to-date across different languages is a real pain in the *** though, and finding or exploring content is not easy. The proposal categories you made are a good help for the latter. Also I know that you have done many other things that I don’t know about. Ultimately I believe MediaWiki is not a great solution for the OSM documentation. Really we should have a platform that allows for a tag database with built-in support for proposals and other content such as proposals and help pages about editors and such,

It’s OUR problems, not only mine. There many translators who followed my edits. Including non popular languages (<3M or <15M).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum - if 9 of 10 doesn’t see problem with something it doesn’t that problem doesn’t exists.

And instead of discussing technical matters in detail or how should we plan changes together Harry requests my personal info?..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy#.22Not_invented_here.22

If 9 our 10 people never corrected error that doesn’t mean that weren’t any ever. Tone or rudeness is completely irrelevant.

Does Harry even aware of his false argumentation “you are editing too much” “it was fine, don’t touch it”?

And this strange discussion was constantly reappearing for unknown to me reason.

but you need to be able to work with people.

I do. I was doing it, until I got interrupted.

by work I mean WORK https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:They_are_using_OpenStreetMap https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Wiki_organisation#Replace_most_of_switch2osm.org_links_with_Deploying_your_own_Slippy_Map https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Wiki#Request_for_namespace_with_machine-readable_definitions_.28XSD:.29

and not useless but “polite” discussions https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category_talk:Editing

Do you know why “Editing” is empty? Because you have new and clean categories https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Guide

So that translators can “bump” their translations from “outdated” Category:Editing to Category:Guide.

It looks like pain in the a**, doesn’t? Is there “drafts” at my user page would be better for anyone who follow my edits? It will be painful, there no option without helpful plugins/without privileges.

Communication style

I do not use “polite” words at all: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User_talk:Kachkaev#OpenStreetMap

I do argument my words whatever necessary?.

Do you still think I’m not “communicating” “nicely”? That my communication style is extremely aggressive? Or what does it really means?

My communication style it might be inappropriate as we all see right now (or at least from some perspectives). It might be awful if you ignore context or just not aware of background.

I do react to people according to their actions, facts and argumentation but independent of their verbosity or tone or their status. Does it sound reasonable? I did it my entire life.

@robert

I’m not “the only one”

Do you realize that I’m not the only one who thinks it is okay to perform update to wiki? Can you ask exactly this question to people who were following my edits? Were my actions selfish? Do you realize that there people actually WORK together with me? Or because there long-needed content at wiki.openstreetmap.org with ideas from Russian community and our/my perspective?

I’m not selfish. I do not leave any question unanswered at wiki. If I didn’t reply somewhere I haven’t seen it. Ofc, I do react to ANY request. This is what collaboration at wiki is all about. I read every! comment in wiki history during my edits/follow history.

Do you still think it is only MY opinion or do I never evaluate considerations of others? Or I’m “failing to communicate SO DRASTICALLY” - and here bandwagon begins again

Comment from gileri on 20 September 2015 at 21:26

It looks like the lack of time for admins/DWG is a reccuring matter, when I was doing country-scale correction of operator/network tags on a particular bank, i got reversed without any discussion, and the DWG member totally ignored my questions.

I understand that it can be really time-consumming to deal with both admin/moderation and explanations, but I don’t think you can dissociate these 2 functions as you deal with edits “in good faith”.

If there is not enough moderators (for the wiki, blog pages, OSM db…), you should try to bring more people into the pool, to avoid letting motivated contributors feel forsaken as I have been around some of my changeset, and how XXZME felt too, seemingly.

Comment from robert on 22 September 2015 at 18:55

“I’m not attacking Harry.”

Is this a joke or are you attempting to backpedal?

You can’t possibly be serious posting that sentence beneath the above diary entry. I note though actually you seem (?) to have edited the main text of this and possibly removed the most scathing remarks. I wonder if a cache exists somewhere on the web of the original version. Would be interesting to see.

Comment from d1g on 22 September 2015 at 21:48

I note though actually you seem (?) to have edited the main text of this and possibly removed the most scathing remarks. I wonder if a cache exists somewhere on the web of the original version. Would be interesting to see.

I minorly corrected my English and added note that M!dgard replied to in PM. Please don’t create conspiracy theories on top of that. Nobody can edit comments to this post.

Is this a joke or are you attempting to backpedal?

I’M NOT! I always attacked his statements and his arguments, but not himself. I didn’t consider that using/or not using polite words would be so important during or after my edits.

I never considered that edits in good faith (even bold edits; even edits for 20-30 language as once) should be defended by it’s author, Or reason why I should I even rationale number of my edits to anyone. I don’t really have ways to defend myself other than to point to other non-English speakers who were following my edits.

Verdi got negative portion at his user page too. He wasn’t happy about it, but I understand him and his actions. Under no circumstances I will say a single bad word about him, when knowing what he actually did to wiki. Even if you will provide links where Verdy is negative or his comments or just fighting some1else edits without discussion. It is so because Verdy was busy doing big changes and to speak long inspiring or impressive speeches and person who were reverting without discussion most likely weren’t aware of them.

Not only it is time consuming to use “polite” words or “nice” tone in any language but additionally my limited proficiency in English adds up so as any other editor who tries not to make edits in English namespace just not to be ashamed of. I even cannot protect myself so actively or efficiently as you attack me using your native language.

If there were active/request from Russian admin at wiki.openstreetmap.org then I would use short Russian to explain my ideas as I speak with Kachkaev. And won’t use any questionable speech/”blatantly rude” English when there no need for his.

You may laugh but I never knew “abrasive” word.

I’m not native English speaker, I never stated that I can perfectly explain my ideas or my words cannot be considered as “rude” or what else words do you use or norms of your language. Or which words are “safe” to use and when.

Here is how try to use it without being rude to anyone https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User_talk:Xxzme#osm_website_.22is_just_fine.22

Is there something offensive I said to Ziltoidium? https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User_talk:Xxzme#weeklyosm

If you always point to the worst parts of the something, what do expect to see? You are creating propaganda for yourself and framing argument without real context about what happened before or conditions when some words were spoken.

I want to remind you guys:

  • Assume good faith
  • No conspiracy theories
  • Communicate with the same respect you would utilize in person

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Etiquette

Etiquette never said “BE PERFECT”, “BE AS NICE AS HARRY WOOD”, “don’t use rude words”. Please reconsider this again and why authors of this page said so .

Comment from d1g on 22 September 2015 at 22:58

Usually English speakers are the first who use “rude” words at talk pages or start using aggressive tone/ad homem comments !

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User_talk:Xxzme#Toilet_holding_tank_pages

in 1rd message he actually tried to be polite / good faith assumption in 2nd message I never attempted to be rude. I said “with best regards” but you will ignore it and BERMABAN ME afterwards. in 3rd message Brycenesbitt says “messy” - is it nice assumption of edits in good faith? in 4rd message I’m trying to explain how changes should be done without being rude and quote his words, unlike him in 5 message he starts to talk not only about mess but also about reverts in 6 message I give up to be polite, he is too aggressive and ignores any of my explanations in 7 message he finishes discussion with mess. Thank you so much for communication Brycenesbitt now you can speak anything about me and only quote my 6rd message and ignore anything else I tried to explain before.

Comment from robert on 23 September 2015 at 09:13

@d1g:

I always attacked his statements and his arguments, but not himself.

Main message is that Harry Wood is clueless tard forcing his unsupported view as OpenStreetMap consensus or final decision made by admin.

Comment from d1g on 23 September 2015 at 13:36

AND AS ALWAYS YOU IGNORE THAT I SAID I’M SORRY

d1g, I understand the reasoning behind your posts/comments, but please don’t insult people, even if you think they deserve it @gileri, I’m, sorry it’s a big stress for me.(from my POV/right now).

Why does I never see “Thank you for you edits” at my talk page from DaCor? Why he thinks it is okay to talk shit behind my back and not directly with me? How it will help anyone?

I’m big boy to explain my position, okay? You can speak with me, not only it’s simple, it may be productive and you may actually know my POV and not someone else.

robert, you are grandmaster in creating propaganda, please join Zverik next time again https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2015-May/072858.html

Talk shit about people without quotes. Quote messages without context. Point only to the worst parts. Never assume good faith. This is what OpenStreetMap wants from you, just ignore https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Etiquette completely

Zverik have 0 interest in OSM wiki he abuses anyone who starts editing it in Russian namespace and ignores any explanation, no matter how many A4 pages you waste to explain what do you want to make with wiki.

Basically he ignored what M!dgard said to you: proposals+tag database and not “how to map” pages.

  1. Zverik continues to create propoganda about me in 05’2015 when I’m not editing this page anymore after DWG explanation https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=RU:%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%BA_%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%87%D0%B8%D1%82%D1%8C&action=history
  2. DWG conflict resolution was is to provide alternative to “how to map” page. Personally I see alternative in tag database, “How to map” page should be created automatically and not manually.

He is extremely abusive in Russian forum. He never assumes good faith. In questionable situations he never discusses the topic, he always uses commutation style “Hey you idiot you failed here, <>” explicitly or implicitly. He never changed his communication style for 4 years, no matter how hard he tries to hide it, in any language.

I suggest to additionally ban Zverik at talk@ list. His messages are wiped from time to time at Russian forum, happily we he have good mods now.

Comment from jgpacker on 24 September 2015 at 14:55

“Choose to be kind over being right and you’ll be right everytime.” ― Richard Carlson

The quote above is especially true when talking about open communities made by volunteers like OSM. That’s because if people are not kind to each other, then they won’t be able to work together, and the community will crumble.

Comment from robert on 24 September 2015 at 15:02

For the record I don’t think serious changes have been made to the content of the main post here - the earliest cache I could find was http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ar3XImcbHMoJ:https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/d1g/diary/35853+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk which is by and large the same.

I think it’s very hard to hide behind the “quoted out of context” thing with the things I’ve quoted. It’s hard to imagine what sort of original context they would have to be in for me to be misrepresenting them here. I’m simply pointing out places you directly contradict yourself.

When it comes to good faith, I’m sure you want to make the map better (however you see “better”) but you seem to be someone who thinks and behaves very unilaterally, finding it very hard to accept that the majority of people disagree with you. There are plenty of things I have an opinion on, but I realize that I am in a relative minority in the community and so I don’t do anything about it.

But the personal attacks are largely moving onto zverik now - should he “say goodbye to his reputation” too? All of your rants seem to be very individual and personal. Is there anyone who you don’t think has wronged you?

Comment from d1g on 4 October 2015 at 06:45

That’s because if people are not kind to each other, then they won’t be able to work together, and the community will crumble.

Too bad that I got 0 positive responds about my edits that were “Your edits were indeed useful and welcome (for the most part)” (DaCor).

That’s why Wikipedia has https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Thank_you guideline

I’m simply pointing out places you directly contradict yourself.

True. Okay, I forgot to mention context once and you did it once let’s not repeat this mistake.

finding it very hard to accept that the majority of people disagree with you

This view was repeatedly forced by Harry in his over-aggressive statements. I’m sorry that it happened.

I never ignored ANY request my user page! No matter how minor this request was, I tried to answer in time first, but without wasting everyone time around “politeness”.

Well I always realize that sometimes my views are not popular or not supported at least for some periods in time.

I’m okay that my views are unpopular. Not everyone teaches or have interest to teach others in OpenStreetMap. The same way, not everyone have interest to have current teaching material in his language (non-English).

English is only used as Lingua franca between Russian, Japanese, Italian, German to share their bits of knowledge.

Every community has their own teaching materials in their language and not based on English text, because there weren’t any good single resource for beginners (pre 2013 or 2014; mainly before changes by Cantho). Yes wiki was THAT outdated/irrelevant.

All of your rants seem to be very individual and personal.

You cannot discus actions of people without discussing themselves or providing context? You cannot quote words without context/attaching it to real person.

For example here it what “tripping point” (Harry Wood statement) is all about:

And I don’t care about permaban requests at @talk lists from incompetent people who revert any slightest minor organizational charges at wiki without any reasonable discussion but toxic comments at my user page “we are discussing your worthless/useless edits here <>” (SIC!):

“Tripping point”

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=RU:Tag:amenity%3Dpayment_terminal&action=history https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Imagery_Offset_Database&action=history https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=RU:Google_Map_Maker&action=history https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2015-May/072858.html

I cannot help people Illya Zverev how wiki editing/organizaion/collaboration works.

It is easier to edit wiki/single page at wiki alone than to communicate and fill-full endless stream of requests “what are your plants during edit X”? Especially if this steam contains insane people like Zverik who press “revert” if there any slight misunderstanding from his part

You can clearly see it from “RU:Google_Map_Maker” history.

He was suppressing creation of 2 pages instead of one that messes everything under single title and repeatedly wasted my time by pressing revert button mid-edits. Here is more context: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wikimapia

Harry decided not only to ignore his message and recognised it as “tripping point” and banned me for 3 months instead of ignoring/banning Zverik who isn’t unable to say a single word about his intentions but to rant at my user page and abuse revert button.

Good job Harry, your name will be tied together will Zverik forever. With person who thinks it is okay to abuse people left and right at every step or when nobody watches you:

http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=157470#p157470:

I wonder why you are in your 33 with 2 childs sit here instead of family-job, and act like schoolchild. Do something useful

This person BTW, pretends to represent Russian community. Anyone with free time and basic knowledge of English will do better than Zverik unfortunately not everyone is able to edit mediawiki or busy with their main job in OpenStreetMap.

Yes, some comments are unnecessary personal (I’m not happy about it, if you haven’t noticed), it is so that there always company/person behind any action/statement.


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