OpenStreetMap
Hey hey. We at the Yerevan Tree Map project were pulling to our database new nodes tagged as natural=tree for a while now, without actually pushing changes back. Now we are starting to do so. The OSM API is not quite straightforward, so we’re learning on the go. We have some 4k plus trees to push, we’ll be adding them in small batches. Later we’ll start pushing updates to existing tree nodes (e.g. when someone measures the tree or updates its state).
Discussion
Comment from SomeoneElse on 9 January 2025 at 10:44
Just checking that you’ve read and are following https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines …
Comment from YerevanTreeMap on 9 January 2025 at 11:17
Sure. Thank you for the heads up.
Comment from MxxCon on 10 January 2025 at 15:07
Also please see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing
Comment from mmd on 10 January 2025 at 15:53
I would also encourage everyone to start with the dev/test instance https://master.apis.dev.openstreetmap.org first before running any scripts against the production OSM API.
Comment from YerevanTreeMap on 11 January 2025 at 08:25
I created the organized editing activity page, thank you.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities/Yerevan_Tree_Map
Comment from MxxCon on 11 January 2025 at 14:23
Have you also seen https://mapcomplete.org/trees.html ? And StreetComplete and EveryDoor apps can also map trees while out and about.
Comment from YerevanTreeMap on 11 January 2025 at 14:36
Yes, we were have seen all those tools but they aren’t really mobile friendly and not optimized for the field work. So we decided to create our own app.
With our current solution one volunteer can add up to 90 new trees per hour, which is a good result which we couldn’t achieve with StreetComplete, Vespucci or any other tool.
Comment from SomeoneElse on 11 January 2025 at 14:41
Please - think about quality rather than quantity!
Perhaps have another look? You’ve said that about apps that are explicilty mobile apps.
Comment from mmd on 11 January 2025 at 15:06
It seems all your users are doing changes on behalf of a single collective account (similar to how Wheelmap works). Please note that this is usually discouraged. Perhaps SomeoneElse can provide a bit more background on this topic.
Relevant link
Comment from YerevanTreeMap on 11 January 2025 at 16:23
Our initiative relies on volunteers, who are rather not tech savvy and understanding concepts of OSM would be too hard for them. We tried and that didn’t work. I did have another look on some popular apps, but nothing suits our needs.
For example, Vespucci fails to show anything to me atm, and StreetComplete only shows tree locations, other data like height, trunk circumference, crown diameter, health is not available. This is the data that we collect to monitor tree health. Vespucci makes that available, when it works, but the UI is so complex, has all possible OSM features, and has a learning curve even for those who are used to OSM. It’s more like a desktop app shoved into a mobile device; it runs on mobile devices, but isn’t necessarily mobile friendly. So we created a separate tool which focuses on trees explicitly and has a minimalist UI.
Anyway, I hope one day we will have enough developers to let users log in to OSM and post updates on their behalf, but currently a single service account is our only option.
Our initiative isn’t about enhancing OSM with data on trees. It’s about collecting extensive data on trees. There are many things that cannot be implemented using OSM alone, or are significantly harder to implement, like comments, multiple images and videos per photo. That’s why we decided to start as a separate thing, instead of trying to find ways to build something on top of OSM. But we are happy to share with the OSM community all data that has a place there. Some of us are long time OSM users and contributors.
Yes we do. Speed increase comes from some specifics related to trees. For example, urban trees are more often than not planted in rows with a fixed step, so we have a UI to add those trees in a single operation, then individual trees can be moved or removed if they aren’t on the line strictly.
The operator then only has to measure parameters like height and circumference. Positioning a tree is actually the most time consuming part, which we can optimize. I don’t think there are many other mappable objects that follow this pattern, maybe except for the electric poles, so we don’t expect any other app to have this UI feature.
(I know there’s natural=tree_row, but we need data on individual trees which isn’t available for tree_row since it’s a line.)
Comment from MxxCon on 11 January 2025 at 16:39
A big problem with using a single account that hides multiple users is that if one user makes a bad edit, there’s no way to reach them to inform of their mistake, so they will continue to add low quality data, and no easy way to find all edits from that one user. Worse still, if someone intentionally makes malicious edits, your whole account can get banned and all your efforts will go to waste.
EveryDoor is a mobile app that specifically has a mode for adding trees. And its UI can be switched to the Russian language, if your participants are more comfortable with it, as opposed to the English language.
Also, as I mentioned above, MapComplete works on mobile too.
And for less technically savvy people there are various paper maps projects which help with field surveying and recording and then can be used to help input data while back at a computer.
Comment from Greg91 on 11 January 2025 at 17:16
@SomeoneElse Thank you for your conserns about quality. The statement that “90 trees per hour” implied that their quality is same (and, in reality, better)
Comment from YerevanTreeMap on 11 January 2025 at 17:25
Yes I understand those risks. We only ever deal with single nodes of particular type, so it’s really hard to damage anything with a bad edit, worst case height is wrong or the tree is misplaced. We review this on our side and correct asap.
I hope this account and linked pages have enough information for anyone with good intent to contact us before reverting any edits.
Comment from Greg91 on 11 January 2025 at 17:26
@mmd @MxxCon
In this case a problem with making many accounts is that: - higher fltechnical threshold for data entry - deanonimisation of people participating in kin this case) activity that can be perceived as political
Quality of the data is ensured by seminars and gradually checked and re-checked over time.
1) There is no real threat of bad data input 2) If malicious data entry is detected, you can white our certralized account and then we can check on all activity of the person (still, anonymously even for us) and cure the data
I hope my answers address your fears. “In general” it might be discouraged, but is this case it is A) not dangerous B) an improvement
If only perfection were allowed, then OSM would have been empty
Comment from Greg91 on 11 January 2025 at 17:29
@MxxCon
We did an extensive testing of all aforementioned apps (and even paper mapping). Unfortunately, none of them come close to convenience, speed and quality of data gathering with the YerevanTreeMap.