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164516060

I can retag them. I just looked up how to do it. Thank you.

164516060

The other two Nodes are also errors.

The "Chelan County Park" is on private land and...

The "Nalon Creek Game Preserve" is actually refers to this. https://co.chelan.wa.us/natural-resources/pages/nason-ridge-community-forest

164516060

I do not know how to edit Wikidata. If you could do the necessary edits I would appreciate it.

I looked at the map you linked. I am unsure what it might have referred to. The Soda Springs, Lake Creek, and Rainy Creek campgrounds exist. Maybe the cluster of all three was a "recreation area". The official USFS Topo map does not show anything.

I am using to online editor to manually reroute forest roads using LIDAR and referring to a USFS Roads Layer.

164516060

I found a point for a Fir Creek Recreation Area NW of Leavenworth on the Little Wenatchee. You were the last editor. I left a note at the location. I am very certain that the recreation area does not exist at that location. I worked for the USFS on that ranger district in 2018 and have visited that area.

177994345

If the abandoned prefix works as you describe, that does sound like a good option. In this area the abandoned roads were showing as "unmaintained trails" on GAIA. That is not typical symbology.

Did you already revert my edits or shall I do so this weekend?

I am not doing armchair mapping as you might imagine. I have driven these road systems and have notes. There are some cases where I have been in the viscinity but not seen every spur or gone far enough to see the washout I know is present from my research. I have cross referenced my findings in the field with what is shown on LIDAR and the official USFS road layer. In mountainous terrain it is typically very clear which roads have become naturalized. Flat terrain is a very different story. I take tracks while driving or walking roads in flat terrain that need corrections.

As I mentioned before, I have worked on several forests and explored them thoroughly.

177994345

The primary mapping software platforms I am aware of that use OpenStreetMap for public lands data are Onyx and Gaia.

Both convert the data to very similar symbologies. The abandoned roads either look just like other roads or trails depending on whether OpenStreetMaps has them as paths, service roads, or unclassified roads. The OpenStreetMaps data is extremely inconsistent in which line type is selected.

I am unsure if you have experience with what abandoned forest roads look like but in my experience, over 95% of those that walk across them are totally unaware that they are technically on a road. Having essentially nonexistent roads litter the map is dangerous because the vast majority of map users will assume that they will be able to use those mapped features to navigate the terrain.

The inclusion of the abandoned roads in the dataset is very patchy. Many road beds that are clearly visible on LIDAR were not included in tbe data import. If all the abandoned roads were mapped with appropriate symbology, they could be useful. The inclusion of roads fully reclaimed by nature or that never existed and exclusion of roads that are obvious routes causes a great deal of confusion, even to those experienced with navigating mountainous public land.

The accuracy of the data is also extremely varied. Many of the abandoned roads barely overlap where they are mapped as existing.

I could use guidance on how rural public roads are meant to be mapped. The data as it is has so many inconsistencies that the goal is very unclear. There also does not seem to be much work being done on the areas I am interested in improving. When I tried to learn by suggesting fixes, another user got very angry that I was suggesting so many fixes in areas not being actively edited.

I want to do things the "right way" but the goal seems rather opaque and the insular mapping community has not been very welcoming from my experience. I am willing to sink hundreds of hours into editing if someone can please lay out how I should be doing it. If the goal is to actually map the hundreds of thousands of miles of abandoned roads on public land, I can focus in on some problem areas and get to work. I had thought that seemed infeasible on the scale of 301,000 square miles of forest service land, but if that is the goal, I can work toward it on a local scale.

177994345

I am trying to clean up the roads on public lands in Washington state. I have explored these areas and am going through my notes. I am using LIDAR and satellite imagery as well.
On public lands there are a lot of "roads" that are overgrown and essentially impossible to even walk. They do not go to any destination and were not meant to be kept in service. The imported data was also very inaccurate so the road mapping does not match reality for most of them. I am fixing the routing of open roads but the multitude of poorly mapped unusable roads are cluttering the map and make navigation difficult. Their presence is misleading because it is not indicated that they are unusable and the mapping is so inaccurate. I am also trying to improve the symbology to indicate which roads are the primary maintained routes and which are the "service roads" that are still usable but not well maintained.

My career is in public land management, including 8 seasons with the USFS. I have a good grasp on how to evaluate the road systems to determine if they are useful to the public. If the roads I am removing were to be added back and tagged as decommissioned, they would need to be remapped. Remapping by hand with the USFS road layer as a source for names and LIDAR for reference would be the only method I know of. With the lack of attention to rural areas in OpenStreetMap, I do not see that as being a reasonable expectation any time soon.

167119317

Should I add notes for them when I notice them missing? I am not really sure how this is supposed to work. I see myself as a groundtruther but don't have a huge interest in figuring out all the quirks involved with editing

167119317

I think I was able to undo it. There are a quite a few missing bridges on the forest. I am not that interested in trying to add them all but someone ought to eventually.