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142027751 over 2 years ago

Raja esialgsel kaardistamisel, mis oli aastal 2015, märgiti selgelt, et tegu on planeeritava rajaga: "planned sport track".

Kommentaar "ei leidnud mingit nähtavat rada" viitab otseselt sellele, et antud planeeritud rada jäi kahjuks paberi peale:
changeset/30920562

Antud gps logi pole vastavuses selle planeeritud rajaga:
@juhanjuku/traces/10712855

Ka väikeste metsaradade kaardistamisel tuleb lähtuda sellest, mis reaalselt olemas on:
osm.wiki/Verifiability

30920562 over 2 years ago

Tundub, et sellest planeeritud rajast pole mitte midagi välja tulnud. Strava heatmapi järgi on seal metsas liikumist küll, aga mitte mööda neid radu. Kustutasin planeeritud raja ära: changeset/142027751

137467127 over 2 years ago

Most bike routers don't allow cycling on highway=footway anyway, unless there is an addition bicycle yes/designated tag. And I think this is generally a good thing. In this way/1115986757 example, bicycle tag is mostly useless since it only connects pedestrian footways.

I've seen several "kergliiklusteid" that are not properly connected to the rest of cycling network. Meaning crossings are footways without bicycle tag. In such cases it is necessary change it to fix bike routing.

But please, don't use bike dismount unless this is really needed and there are actual signs for that like in way/1136290745

141532007 over 2 years ago

FYI - fixme in node/11206280748

I can confirm the motocross race track does indeed cross with XCO bike trail:

https://fotoladu.maaamet.ee/?basemap=kiirortofoto&zlevel=15,26.94990,59.36051&overlay=tyhi
https://www.strava.com/heatmap#18.14/26.95021/59.36020/gray/ride

130961188 over 2 years ago

Here is how I would rank the possible tagging options, if this bog trail is indeed unridable for most of the time by bike.

1) leaving it as just "highway=path" is the worst option, since routers have no clue if this section is usable by bike.

2) Adding "bicycle=no" is better, but technically incorrect.

3/4) Adding "mtb:scale=6" to is technically correct if the trail is unridable by a skilled MTB rider.

3/4) Using highway=footway instead.

130961188 over 2 years ago

The thing is there is no "you probably don't want to go there with a bike" tag that is widely supported by routers. There is a class:bicycle tag: class:bicycle=* but this is not established one and it has some other issues as well. In case you want make sure that the bike routers won't accidentally direct someone to a bog, then mtb:scale=6 could be effectively used for that. IMO it is far better to use this than access tag. Access tag shouldn't be subjective like mtb:scale.

But better yet, I'd use highway=footway without bicycle tag. Then 99% of bike routers would avoid it.

PS: and to muddy the waters even further, winter mountainbiking is also a thing and with the right conditions you could ride on ice and snow that is on top of frozen bog.

130961188 over 2 years ago

I agree with qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq, generally it is a bad practice to use bicycle=no tag for paths, that are not suitable for bikes at all.

As an alternative you could use:

1) highway=footway with appropriate surface tag.

2) mtb:scale=6 - this essentially means impassable by MTB. But keep in mind that there are some fatbike and MTB rides who like to ride on very difficult terrain.

I have personally surveyed way/1127876697 way/277874021 and part of way/1124645979 that's between these two paths. That section was ridable and quite far from "physically impossible to cycle".

141469494 over 2 years ago

Not*

141469494 over 2 years ago

Note sure what kind of issue Apirnus wants to resolve.

Mustika Keskuse Apteek is already mapped in OSM:
node/7755823506/history

Opening hours from the photo (https://westnordost.de/p/149089.jpg) along with name and operator where correct from version 1 with Rocketdata import.

141197714 over 2 years ago

It does look strange.

Just for reference, Maa-amet has mapped this as a stream:
https://geoportaal.maaamet.ee/index.php?lang_id=1&page_id=872&etak_id=2242633

141157847 over 2 years ago

About these historic tags - I suppose addr:* tags can be useful and it looks address is valid as well:
https://xgis.maaamet.ee/adsavalik/CU02095490

But I believe maaamet:ETAK and source should be deleted since these are no longer relevant.

139189535 over 2 years ago

Restored the path after a survey.

changeset/140464374

140021084 over 2 years ago

Considering that highway=path is already quite ambiguous, adding just surface=asphalt would be misleading. In a urban environment it should be safe to assume surface=asphalt has excellent smoothness. I personally wouldn't use surface tag at all since half of the year this path is covered with moss/mud/leaves/snow/ice. If you really need to use surface tag then "paved" should be acceptable.

Sure, not actually suggestion to use asfaldipuru or any other nonstandard tag.

140021084 over 2 years ago

way/48865157 - is surface=asphalt actually useful without any additional tags? If I recall correctly something like https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/surface=asfaldipuru might be more appropriate in this case

139189535 over 2 years ago

Basically there are 3 distinct things to consider:

Is the path clearly visible and usable?
Even if it's not, keep in mind that during the summer months grass can grow very quickly making it temporarily unusable. I've personally been there on autumn/winter/spring and it has been ridable with a bike.

Is the path a dead-end and completely blocked by the barrier next to the cycle path?
If it really is, then I would seriously consider deleting it.

Is it actually used?
The easiest way is to check Strava heatmap. It shouldn't display activities that are older than 12 months and it's updated monthly. On winter months you can also survey footprints on snow :D

139189535 over 2 years ago

Streetviews from Sep 2022 and Jun 2019 clearly show - there is a gap between two barriers, between bridge and ramp. Although it is quite narrow, it is possible to cycle through the gap, without dismounting. If there's been any recent changes to this area and now you really need to climb over the barrier, then it makes sense to delete the path.

Personally, I would be very cautious to delete any paths that show clear activity in Strava heatmap.

139189535 over 2 years ago

If I recall correctly there was a gap between fence and the barrier:
https://fotoladu.maaamet.ee/?basemap=hybriidk&zlevel=10,25.17544,59.46693&foto=5815919&overlay=avaleht&HDzlevel=14,84.98413,-179.66997&HD=img/a7r3/2022-04/30,2022-04-30-09-09-12_K1.jpg,7952,5304

Correct link for Strava heatmap: https://www.strava.com/heatmap#18.34/25.17734/59.45443/gray/all

139189535 over 2 years ago

What happened to this deleted path? Based on Strava heatmap it's still used by foot and by bike: changeset/117921834#map=18/59.45406/25.17751

I've also used this path several times, though couple of years ago.

138937391 over 2 years ago

I think the question on how Google Maps/Street View could be used without violating ToS is worth of discussing. Let use community forums for that:
https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/can-google-maps-street-view-be-used-in-some-ways-that-might-influence-osm-edits/101810

138937391 over 2 years ago

Hi, why do you think that 12 years old Google Street View imagery is accurate? From Maa-amet imagery the asphalt is clearly visible: https://xgis.maaamet.ee/xgis2/page/link/Ed6kUGe8

PS: For legal reasons you shouldn't use Streetview anyway: osm.wiki/Google