Hi Kokosnøtt, thanks for your contributions to OpenStreetMap! This particular changeset covers a large geographic area and contains many unrelated changes. It would be incredibly helpful for understanding and reviewing your edits if you split them up into smaller areas—in other words: please press save / upload more often. (Your recent edits at Strøno and IKEA look like good examples of smaller changesets.) Thanks, and happy mapping! –cck

@Gazer75:
Veldig godt poeng. Men tydeligvis var jeg ikke smart nok her :-/

Mens jeg i prinsippet var kjent med prosjektet om vegdata-import, har jeg ikke fulgt framgangen i detalj gjennom årene. Jeg hadde faktisk sett på Progress-tabellen av og til etter den ble diskutert på den internasjonale [imports]–listen, men tanken om å legge inn en slik notat slo meg aldri, dessverre…

Jeg har ingenting imot å være offentlig, men som sagt er disse changeset comments dårlig egnet til kompleks kommunikasjon. La oss tar dette til mailinglisten.

https://lists.nuug.no/pipermail/kart/2020-March/thread.html

Jeg innser nå at jeg har handlet i feil rekkefølge. Jeg beklager dette!

Men det endrer ikke det faktum at jeg kunne like godt svare: Det er ikke jeg som har ødelagt ditt arbeid – men heller er vårt arbeid her desverre blitt ødelagt gjennom denne importen.

Allikevel, jeg beklager nå virkelig at jeg revertet uten å ta kontakt først.

Hei NKA, jeg akkurat skrev en direktemelding til deg. Som jeg skrev, var det dessverre ikke mye å disktuere i dette tilfelle. Importen er i strid med prosjektplanen.

Følger opp per direktemelding med eksempler, siden changeset comments tilbyr ikke Markdown.

Honestly, I really don't appreciate this comment thread, attached to the wrong changeset, with Gazer75 making false claims and having no local knowledge, which is crucial in making these determinations.

Importance as a part of the road network:
*That* is what road classification is for.

So when the wiki fundamentally says "tertiary" should be used for the network of the most important roads below fylkesveger, I think it'll be hard to argue against that.

And that's *exactly* what we've got here with Dalavegen: The most important road in the area by far that is not a fylkesveg. So it's a "tertiary".

This is the way it's being done in OSM internationally.
This is the way that's documented on the Wiki (multiple times).
This is the way it's being done here in Kvinnherad, also by other mappers.

I understand that when coming from a city or other tettsted, your expectation of the physical characteristics of "tertiary" may be very different from the reality of such roads in rural districts.

But that's just the way it is. The concept of importance is always relative to the surroundings.

May get on IRC later – right now I gotta go.

I did give you the link to the wiki page for Norway, and that's not what it says at all.

Have you actually read it?

Tagging roads with lower classes than they in fact should have is basically "tagging for the renderer". We try to avoid that in OSM. If routing software doesn't take into account the physical characteristics of roads, such as surface=* and width=*, then that's clearly a bug in the routing software.

As I said in the changeset tags: In OSM, we map facts on the ground.

Besides, routing software for large vehicles such as semi trailers *must* take into the legal restrictions set by Vegvesenet. (If you speak Norwegian, the search terms are "vegliste" / "bruksklasse".) But that kind of data changes all the time, so it isn't really useful to include in OSM.

Sorry, this is the correct cs link for Dalavegen: <changeset/64026899>

Hei Gazer75. Bus routes are specified using relations in OSM. highway=* is just for the road class. highway=tertiary is used for any kind of local artery.

Cities do tend to use such roads for bus routes, but that does *not* mean that all roads without bus service aren't arteries. In fact, just looking inside Oslo's Ring 2, I see lots of tertiary roads without bus service. These are not tagging mistakes: Bus service is an indication that a road *probably* is an artery, but the reverse is simply not true. In rural districts all the more so, as those tend to have much worse public transport than cities do.

IMHO this is well documented in <osm.wiki/Norway/Highways#Road_classes>.

Do you have local knowledge in Ølve and Hatlestrand?

In this particular case, the road from Husa towards Sunnfjord very clearly is the (relatively) most important municipal road in Ølve today. It is also historically the oldest road in Ølve and today a shortcut towards Fv549 towards Nordtveit. The latter means it has a road network function, which is a rarity for branch roads in Hardanger because of its topography. IMHO, there can be little doubt that this road in fact is a local artery – especially in Norway, where national practice as per the wiki doesn't take road quality into account when classifying roads, which is not always the case internationally in OSM.

(I already mentioned part of this reasoning briefly in <changeset/64027034>.)

Now, as for the roads to Skarvatun and Ask – I'm on the fence for those. See <changeset/64027034> for my original reasoning there, which may well have been faulty.

Hilsen, cck