@Trail_Caretaker / Shane: With this edit you removed a number of trail names from the Big M area. This has made it so electronic maps no longer match the signs physically on the ground.

Thank you. In this case the issues beyond the size of the changeset (it's HUGE) are:

- Your description. It needs to be much more specific.
- You mapped a trail (way ID 1451006980) wrong. What you mapped does not exist in reality. Please confirm that new trails actually exist, and are not just present as lines in Strava data, before you map them. I fixed this in changeset/175383923.
- You mapped a path as connecting the Clinton River Trail into Pfeizer's private property, mapped paths in their compound, and then added access details to those paths. I fixed this, because that path does NOT connect and would mislead people in thinking here is access from the CRT to Parkdale at that point. (There's a large fence in the way.)

Please appropriately comment your changes and limit their scope. This change came to my attention because you have mis-mapped things adjacent to Bloomer.
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Published using OSMCha: https://osmcha.org/changesets/174712131

Looking at this change and how it designated some roads as part of the B2B, I'm wondering if it should be listed this way because, as of now roughly two years later, it's not signed nor part of the actual B2B route. While I understand this is part of what's planned, I'm concerned that listing it in OSM as part of the actual B2B will lead folks down a path they don't quite expect?

I just found another issue with this changeset. You changed some marker numbers in Bald Mountain to match the DNR map, but this is actually wrong. OSM had the correct locations mapped, until after you change.

Again, please actually CHECK what you are mapping and don't just copy what you find online. You've once again generated bad data doing so. I'll fix this in yet another changeset.

Doh, yeah. I got the month wrong. It's as of today, 24-Oct-2024. There is a bridge planned for this area, but it won't happen until next year at least.

Regardless, use OSMCha to look at the changeset that I referenced: https://osmcha.org/changesets/158295326 . I recommend familiarizing yourself with OSMCha as it's useful to track down what changes broke things and for assigning blame when things get mis-mapped.

You can see the old path and it after my edit, which shows it now not connecting to the Paint Creek Trail.

The error in your edit was not confirming the physical state of the path before mapping it, and this resulted in a dead-end as folks trying to get to the PCT were directed down a dead end.

Please, when you are editing: validate your changes, even if it takes going there in person, to confirm that what you are mapping is accurate. Had you visited this location you would have seen both the gate at the start of the trail, markings that it's closed, and seen that it does not connect to the PCT.

Also, keep your changesets small. This change of yours was pretty large, and this also makes it difficult to track things down.

In this changeset you connected an under-construction path to the Paint Creek Trail, indicating there's a path that goes across a river. As of 24-November-2024 this is under construction and marked do not enter. Mapping resulted in folks being routed to a dead-end.

This has been corrected in 158295326.

Thanks for that feedback, jumbanho. Can you tell me how you'd see that in practice?

These are signed routes throughout the cityas detailed here: https://cityoftroy.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=99335e6e8f7c47718a3824a99a79d1cf

I'll be updating this in the future as they've added more signs, but it's all considered by the city to be a singular bicycle route.

Hmm. So a series of relations all with the same name, with each relation representing the contiguous section? That's doable...

Hey there. Hmm. How would you suggest tagging this, then? Perhaps as a series of individual routes aggregated into a superrelation?

I get what you're saying about tagging for the renderer, but at the same time, this is how the effectively-official maps show things. With the change you'd made the City of Troy became a hole in the map. And the same would happen for the other nearby cities if the same was done there.

Ahhh, got it. Thanks for explaining that. :)

Hey there. Just wanted to ask about this change... I thought I used note correctly here per the Wiki to be very specific? And then added commend as well as just in case? I take it that wasn't quite right?

I recognize that it didn't validate quite right in JOSM, but it seemed to match the Wiki...

I've used the same, just by looking at the 3DEP stuff in areas that I'm going to be in, then seeing what I can find. A personal favorite is to look around Ishpeming and Negaunee, MI, and find the old surface iron mining remnants that are back in the woods. Many of these are surprisingly accessible because of the ORV and mountain bike trails adjacent to them.

All sorts of neat old railroad stuff pops out, just as you describe.

Thanks for that info, and pointing me to OHM. I hadn't seen that before.

I'll give it a look. That's interesting and makes sense about the railroads. I can see how those would have been transitioned into old paths or two tracks, but some might just be small terrain features under trees now.

I know this changeset is from a while ago, bu looking at many of the railway=abandoned that you added, I'm having a difficult time believing these were all railroads. They instead look to me like logging roads. Do you happen to have some other information that shows they were railways and not just logging roads?

Another spot I've noticed, and I'm figuring out how to fix this, you added an old path in that goes through actively collapsing ground and traverses a fence that was installed last year. (This is just south of Jackson Mine Park in Ishpeming along the IOHT and the end of Cheese Grater.)

Here's another spot that you messed up. The trail is only Dirty Mary to the two track, then it's Luge Climb after that, and Luge Run going down. There is no Luge Connector, that's actually an old county road that is now unnamed: https://imgur.com/a/T03cZjx

By changing the path to have the sharp corners you have also deviated from how the trail is on the ground. There are no sharp switchbacks like that, but a series of tight curves.

In that image you can see the orange highlight is the OSM data from a few months ago and the background line is after your changes. You've really, really messed up the trail data in this area.

Also, I'm looking through, but because you've made such massive changes all at once it's like a puzzle of having to figure out what's now wrong or broken. Especially where you've added trails and changed routes.

It's really a bad idea to add to already-mapped areas based solely on old data you find online.

OpenStreetMap is the gold reference. I named all the trails that have names based on direct communication with the RAMBA leadership and looking at trailside signage.

I also would advise you to not add more trails or change anything unless you've gone there in person and surveyed things. There are a bunch of old spots that appear in the Strava heatmap and on older maps which go through active subsidance areas where the ground is literally collapsing. Much of it has been fenced off since the heatmaps were updated or other maps last produced.

Unless you go there in person and survey things -- as I have done and continue to do for all of the RAMBA trails -- you'll produce inaccurate and unsafe maps.

In this changeset you marked a lot of these trails as one-way. They are not one way so I've gone in and fixed a lot of it.

RAMBA has no one-way trails.