Hmm. So a series of relations all with the same name, with each relation representing the contiguous section? That's doable...

Hey there. Hmm. How would you suggest tagging this, then? Perhaps as a series of individual routes aggregated into a superrelation?

I get what you're saying about tagging for the renderer, but at the same time, this is how the effectively-official maps show things. With the change you'd made the City of Troy became a hole in the map. And the same would happen for the other nearby cities if the same was done there.

Ahhh, got it. Thanks for explaining that. :)

Hey there. Just wanted to ask about this change... I thought I used note correctly here per the Wiki to be very specific? And then added commend as well as just in case? I take it that wasn't quite right?

I recognize that it didn't validate quite right in JOSM, but it seemed to match the Wiki...

I've used the same, just by looking at the 3DEP stuff in areas that I'm going to be in, then seeing what I can find. A personal favorite is to look around Ishpeming and Negaunee, MI, and find the old surface iron mining remnants that are back in the woods. Many of these are surprisingly accessible because of the ORV and mountain bike trails adjacent to them.

All sorts of neat old railroad stuff pops out, just as you describe.

Thanks for that info, and pointing me to OHM. I hadn't seen that before.

I'll give it a look. That's interesting and makes sense about the railroads. I can see how those would have been transitioned into old paths or two tracks, but some might just be small terrain features under trees now.

I know this changeset is from a while ago, bu looking at many of the railway=abandoned that you added, I'm having a difficult time believing these were all railroads. They instead look to me like logging roads. Do you happen to have some other information that shows they were railways and not just logging roads?

Another spot I've noticed, and I'm figuring out how to fix this, you added an old path in that goes through actively collapsing ground and traverses a fence that was installed last year. (This is just south of Jackson Mine Park in Ishpeming along the IOHT and the end of Cheese Grater.)

Here's another spot that you messed up. The trail is only Dirty Mary to the two track, then it's Luge Climb after that, and Luge Run going down. There is no Luge Connector, that's actually an old county road that is now unnamed: https://imgur.com/a/T03cZjx

By changing the path to have the sharp corners you have also deviated from how the trail is on the ground. There are no sharp switchbacks like that, but a series of tight curves.

In that image you can see the orange highlight is the OSM data from a few months ago and the background line is after your changes. You've really, really messed up the trail data in this area.

Also, I'm looking through, but because you've made such massive changes all at once it's like a puzzle of having to figure out what's now wrong or broken. Especially where you've added trails and changed routes.

It's really a bad idea to add to already-mapped areas based solely on old data you find online.

OpenStreetMap is the gold reference. I named all the trails that have names based on direct communication with the RAMBA leadership and looking at trailside signage.

I also would advise you to not add more trails or change anything unless you've gone there in person and surveyed things. There are a bunch of old spots that appear in the Strava heatmap and on older maps which go through active subsidance areas where the ground is literally collapsing. Much of it has been fenced off since the heatmaps were updated or other maps last produced.

Unless you go there in person and survey things -- as I have done and continue to do for all of the RAMBA trails -- you'll produce inaccurate and unsafe maps.

In this changeset you marked a lot of these trails as one-way. They are not one way so I've gone in and fixed a lot of it.

RAMBA has no one-way trails.

Hey there. I wanted to let you know that this, and a number of other trail changes you've made in the Ishpeming/Negaunee area are wrong. You've added names to trails that are incorrect and do not match the signs along the trails. I believe that you are getting names from Trailforks, but these are wrong as well.

Hey there -- wanted to make a note about this changeset. The trails here at DTE shouldn't be designated as cycleway. These are paths through the woods that allow bicycles (along with other uses) which are different from the documented dedicated cycleway purpose.

Additionally, by designating them as cycleway you'll cause routing software, which thinks cycleways are good for all kinds of bicycles, to route people down these trails. This isn't good, as there's a number of technical features and such that are not appropriate for commuters.

I'd definitely like to make one of those; I'll keep an eye on the calendar.

Regarding the tagging, there's a bit of a disparity with how to tag mountain bike trails. That'd be good to get worked out and something I can probably help quite a bit with.

Here's a photo of one of the road signs: https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/5bd316b993a63221b90b5210/1543124476554-EX942BDVFENVIN6GGR0O/IMG_3421.jpg?format=2500w&content-type=image%2Fjpeg

Hey there! In this case the route of the race is listed on permanent road signs so it can be ridden by anyone, any time of year. It's a cycling route.

Detail about that is available here:

https://barry-roubaix.com/news/2019/1/25/faq-are-the-courses-marked-do-you-have-gps-files-and-maps-for-the-courses

To quote: "Our 22, 36 and 62 mile courses are permanently marked with street signs starting and ending at the City of Hastings."

If you search Google Images for Barry-Roubaix Road Signs you'll find photos of the signs as well.

Thanks for the check, I've been doing trail mapping for a while. ;)

Pretty neat about the in-person meetings. I'll keep an eye on them.

It's there, today is the official grand opening per the Poto MBA and Michigan DNR. Give this a read for more info: https://www.facebook.com/dtetrail/posts/5305526459505766

Hey Spanholz. Can you point out the specific ways? While I agree these are a bit awkward, they match the reality on the ground. They don't quite connect to the road, are parallel to it, and are signed as separate routes (cycleways) that are disconnected from the main road. They also are part of the local cycling infrastructure commonly used to take riders from the town over to one of the main mountain bike trailheads.