Conwy Valley

Posted by Yoiks and Away on 18 May 2011 in English (English)

Since signing up, over the last few days, I've been frantically adding large amounts of data to the Conwy valley area, roughly from Tal-Y-Bont to Betws-Y-Coed, in the valley and up in the hills to either side. Where possible I've been going over my old gps tracks and using them (they are quite accurate). Since discovering that it is OK to use Bing and Ordnance Survey Open Street Data (or whatever it is called) via JOSM, I've added far more detail using them. The area is quite poorly covered, and I am trying to get a decent amount of detail on the map. I am mostly concerned with adding paths, tracks and roads, as I want to get a routeable map of the area to use with my gps (thanks to TalkyToaster's weekly conversion of OSM to Garmin img format of the UK).

Some examples: The roads in the area between Eglwysbach and Llanrwst were poorly covered, with whole roads missing. I added one major section of road from a cycle trip with my GPS (I bumped into the Google Mobile on the way, which was out mapping Street View data at the time!). The rest of the roads were added using Bing and OS Street Map Data. I tidied up a few roads added by other users which were significantly out from the OS and Bing data. I also traced an area of woodland in this area, and added paths from a hike from a few months ago up to the view point of Cadair Ifan Goch. Extra paths were added tracing the gaps in the woodland using OS Open Data, and confirming with Bing.

I've also added large amounts of tracks to Gwydyr forest above Betws-Y-Coed. Again some were take from a cycle trip, but most were traced from OS and Bing. I've left the traced tracks ungraded, as I cannot say what they are like on the ground. Also many of these tracks may actually be Forestry Commission/farm roads, but I've marked them as tracks for now, as I don't know which suitable for cars (rather than 4x4s) and which are open to car access by the public. They should mostly be open to walkers and cyclists. If you use OSM to visit the area, please try to update information about these tracks. I've yet to add the forest itself, but will probably do so over the next few days.

I've added the water pipelines that come down from Llyn Cowlyd and Coedty Reservoir down to the water works at Dolgarrog. However, I discovered that these do not display on the map (man_made=pipeline, type=water, location=overground). After much pratting about, I tried tagging them also as a water feature (drain), and named them "Water Pipe" so people can distinguish them from all the streams in the area (there is also concrete channel running around near the pipes, which is currently tagged as a stream). They are a significant feature and it is useful for hikers to see them on a map. If anyone knows of a better way to to this, please feel free to make the changes.

That's all for now.

Comment from SK53 on 18 May 2011 at 10:41

Bravo, all contributions in North Wales are very welcome.

As you say there is a huge amount of detail missing, but familiarity with the area combined with Bing and OS Open Data do help. I've got a lot of geolocated photos from sporadic trips which I've started to use together with Bing aerials to add detail.

As for the water pipes: they do not show up on the main map (the Mapnik render), but they are shown on most garmin maps derived from OSM (e.g., talkytoaster & All-in-One): I've just checked both of these for the pipes coming from Llyn Llydaw to Cwm Dyli power station. Mapnik does not render everything, and is not specifically walker-oriented. It's best to keep the correct tagging, and persuade the authors of the renderers to add overground pipelines. Changing the tagging to get something to show up on the renderer means that it wont show up properly on people's Garmin units: and its those which are far more likely to be used on the hill.

Comment from spark on 18 May 2011 at 10:59

Good stuff! I'll be moving to the area in a few months, so hopefully I'll be getting lots of mapping done around the area too.

Comment from sdoerr on 18 May 2011 at 11:15

Make sure you include a source tag if you are using OS OpenData. The two main ones are OS_OpenData_Streetview and OS_OpenData_Locator. If you trace from Bing and add the name from Streetview, I'd put:


It's still not certain that OS Open Data is compatible with ODbL, so if we ever move to the latter we may have to remove stuff sourced from there :-(


Comment from Yoiks and Away on 18 May 2011 at 15:10

Thanks for the positive comments and suggestions. I've only been editing for a few days now, so I'm still trying to figure things out. I've correctly tagged the water pipeline now.

Also, I've generally been tagging things with either OS_OpenData_Streetview or Bing, as I've mostly been using one or the other (but I've switched back and forwards when tracing the woods). I might keep to Bing as much as possible if there are still issues with OS Open Data.

I'm hoping to get more added by Friday, as I want to get as much in the next TalkyToaster map as possible.

Comment from chriscf on 20 May 2011 at 21:48

Hint: it's "Betws-y-coed", not "Betws-Y-Coed". In Welsh, hyphenated names don't get subsequent capitals, and "y(r)" isn't capitalised other than at the start, as in "Y Barri" (Barry) or "Yr Wyddfa" (Snowdon).

Good work otherwise, keep it up.

Comment from Yoiks and Away on 21 May 2011 at 09:16

Heh. Everything I have says Betws-y-Coed, Tal-y-Fan, etc, including things written (in English) by Welsh speakers and locals (and not counting some old books which variously spell it Bettws-y-Coed, or Betwys-y-Coed, or Betws y Coed). The capitalized Ys above were mistakes due to rapid typing, and a non-working brain, and are not replicated on the map. I've been tending to copy the spellings and capitalization of words exactly from the OS Open Data (with the exception of words that are entirely capitalized).

Local road signs and shop signs are inconsistent in their capitalization -- some capitalize the C others don't. For example, see:,-3.677247&spn=0.001037,0.002038&z=19&layer=c&cbll=53.048846,-3.676982&panoid=BzIM-ohjh1zIDAqjblnuWQ&cbp=12,227.09,,3,4.67,-3.912662&spn=0.001035,0.002038&z=19&layer=c&cbll=53.105043,-3.912488&panoid=K-6H9P_VBZG-uGB8AV0kXA&cbp=12,110.96,,2,9.89,-3.806647&panoid=KGFeFlgWIwX-5MLq8WGDXQ&cbp=12,66.14,,2,-4.03&ll=53.093542,-3.806191&spn=0.001036,0.002038&z=19

NB the last one capitalizes the Ys in Betws-Y-Coed and Pont-Y-Pair. :)

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