Changeset: 135293564
Work in this area is to update way locations and access tags at NT's Scarfell. For more info on the organised editing activity see: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities/National_Trust_Paths
Closed by AWMapper
Tags
changesets_count | 242 |
---|---|
created_by | iD 2.25.1 |
host | https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit |
imagery_used | Bing Maps Aerial;Public Rights of Way |
locale | en-GB |
resolved:crossing_ways:highway-highway | 1 |
resolved:crossing_ways:highway-waterway | 2 |
resolved:help_request:fixme_tag | 1 |
warnings:crossing_ways:highway-highway | 2 |
warnings:crossing_ways:highway-waterway | 10 |
warnings:outdated_tags:deprecated_tags | 3 |
Discussion
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Comment from SomeoneElse
Hello,
In this change you've increased the san_scale for https://osm.mapki.com/history/way/839038651 from alpine_hiking to difficult_alpine_hiking. Was that deliberate?
Best Regards,
Andy -
Comment from SK53
I think this is now overgraded. T5 is not something likely to be encountered on any widely used 'path' in the Lakes or most other places in the British Isles.
Lord's Rake is (or certainly) was an unpleasant ascent, and it does have some objective dangers over recent years from rock fall etc. This gives a good feel for the crux on a standard T5 route https://www.hikr.org/gallery/photo2405005.html?post_id=122152#1. A steeply angled slab with exposure down to a glacier. This is significant harder than anything on Lord's Rake.
I realise that the SAC Scale may be interpreted differently in the UK, but in the longer term it is better to keep to the original definition. Not only does this help consistency, but will not result in British hikers being misled as to what the T4, T5 and T6 alpine hiking grades actually entail.
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Comment from AWMapper
Hello both,
thank you for your constructive comments on this change.
This change was made in consultation with staff who have a lot of experience working on the ground in this area. We attempted to interpret the SAC Scale and apply it as appropriate.
As it appears, from the feedback, that we've over estimated the SAC Scale I'll revert to the original grading.Many thanks.
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Comment from SK53
Thanks, I forgot to mention that I did recently look at grading of paths in the Lakes (after the Barf incident around Christmas) and wrote a couple of entries about them:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SK53/diary/400702
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SK53/diary/400712
http://sk53-osm.blogspot.com/2023/01/a-little-surprise-hidden-in-os.htmlThe key difference between T4 & T5 is that the latter involves some (easy) 3-point climbing technique at some point. So Broad Stand is probably a good candidate for T5 if it were mapped.
Elsewhere in Britain experienced hiking guides have done some good work on checking the harder routes: such as on An Teallach. There were some good threads on mastodon (linked in my posts). So I think we are collectively working towards consistent usage of these scales in the UK. A bit harder to know if these are consistent with usage elsewhere.
One point is that the T4- and T4+ values could be used if there is a need to separate alternatives which are of different character. At present the Foxes Tarn ascent of Scafell is graded T3 so this is not needed.
I'm also very pleased about the action concerning the short-cut path marked bypassing the col at Broad Pike (https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1086252957#map=17/54.45589/-3.21152&layers=D).
Jerry aka SK53
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