Hello tubeless,

Andy from OSM’s Data Working group here. I’m writing this to address a number of comments visible at https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=8968279&commented in one place, rather than on individual changesets by different users.

Taking a recent on on osm.org/changeset/190190071 as a starting point

OPTICAL OVERRIDE WARNING / SYSTEMIC FAILURE

Modifying real-time physical ground-truth (source=survey) using high-latency optical proxies (Mapillary) is a mechanical degradation of spatial data. An elevated edit count does not bend the physical laws of this local topology.

You are operating on an optical delay. This specific override is a direct symptom of the Data Working Group (DWG) structurally abandoning the ‘On-the-Ground’ doctrine to subsidize remote gamification and armchair mapping over absolute local accuracy.

If you refuse to physically verify this vector, you are knowingly injecting optical hallucinations into the database. I am documenting this structural corruption here. The resulting real-world routing failures now belong entirely to your delayed assumptions and DWG’s failed architecture.

Starting at the top of that I’ve no idea what “OPTICAL OVERRIDE WARNING / SYSTEMIC FAILURE” is supposed to even mean. I can only presume that it is supposed to be “a scary warning” and not actually mean anything. Writing things like this has little effect other than to make you look a bit silly, so I would suggest not doing it in future.

You then say “Modifying real-time physical ground-truth (source=survey) using high-latency optical proxies (Mapillary) is a mechanical degradation of spatial data.”.

What I think that you might be saying is that you mapped something one way (here I presume osm.org/way/588260825/history ) and another mapper then mapped it another way (here that would be osm.org/user/amtplskaart ) and that you believe that their mapping is incorrect. However, you have not said what is incorrect, or why you believe it is incorrect.

As currently mapped, “Jalan Bangau I” osm.org/way/476996718/history is private, access-controlled by a lift-gate at the west. There are also lift-gates mapped at the west of Jalan Bangau II osm.org/way/476996717/history and Jalan Bangau III osm.org/way/736669323/history ; access to those is via osm.org/way/588260825/history .

It may be that you have some local knowledge about what access is allowed here, but your previous edit was actually two years ago osm.org/changeset/156159481 with a comment “Align street line, change tags, and access gate” so it really does not help anyone understand what source you used for that edit.

Moving on to your next comment “You are operating on an optical delay. “, I think that you are trying to say that the source that osm.org/user/amtplskaart used (“Esri World Imagery”) is out of date, but you have not said in what way it is out of date, how you know it to be out of date or provided anything (perhaps even photos by you) that would show how it was out of date.

You then say “This specific override is a direct symptom of the Data Working Group (DWG) structurally abandoning the ‘On-the-Ground’ doctrine to subsidize remote gamification and armchair mapping over absolute local accuracy.”, which is just utter rubbish. There has been no policy change in this area, there is no “subsidising of gamification” by the DWG (we don’t have a budget for that). There absolutely HAS been criticism of gamification of OSM contributions (see e.g. https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/how-long-will-hot-task-artifacts-be-left-to-rot-in-osm/148320 very recently), but I don’t think that that is related to these edits.

I won’t dignify “If you refuse to physically verify this vector…” with a reply because it is just made-up rubbish designed to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt.

What I suggest that you do in the future is:

• comment on problems in changesets explaining what is wrong, how you know it is wrong and explaining you the receiver of the comment can see for themselves that you are correct.
• Always link to specific OSM objects and talk about specific OSM tag keys and values to explain a problem so that it is clear what you mean.
• If something needs to be discussed more widely please discuss at https://community.openstreetmap.org/c/communities/id/58 (you can login with your OSM credentials).

I’ve sent this message as one that you have to read before continuing to edit. You’ll be able to continue as soon as you have read it, but please do try and engage with other mappers in a helpful rather than an unhelpful way in the future.

Best Regards,

Andy