Typo. It should be "as well as Tierra Rejada Valley which is the...."

Technically, yes, a person could cut through there, but, since there's a metal fence on the south end (that one can easily go around or over), it's intended just for the water path.

TYPO: I meant South Beach, CA, as the third alternative name. A fourth and much less common name for the area is Yerba Buena, CA.

It's different in different areas. In L.A., for example, we have unincorporated Altadena whoch has very clearly defined administrative borders, and we have unincorporated Acton which are vague. 🤷‍♂️

Ahh, gotcha. I wasn't clear if the anonymous comment was yours or not. Anyway, think of this unincorporated area as being similar to Marin City which, despite its name, is similarly not a city, but another unincorporated area that is administered by the county of Marin. Cheers! 👍

Yes, there is. I grew up in San Rafael and we always called this unincorporated neighborhood California Park or just Cal Park. It's here too in Wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Park,_California?wprov=sfti1

I don't mind if you change it to private. I marked it as permissive because... even though it's private land... it's NOT gated and it's publicly accessible right-of-way (so much so that even Google Street View photographed the entirety of that road... something they don't do on fully private roads). This is so that people can get to the marshland trails east of the RR tracks. But, again, thank you for checking with me -- an argument can be made for marking it private too, so I'm certainly okay with that.

Or... my first name only at extremophiles dot com.

No problem. I should keep a list of links anyway. Some are on OSM and non-OSM message boards and private messages too.

As for the documentation... and as for what Mr. Wandrer thinks... it's all subjective when you come down to the fact that members of different cities and jurisdictions will feel differently. What's good for L.A. might not be the same in Boston or Birmingham or Botswana.

Anyway, I'll have attachments to send. Let's continue via email or text! Both are googlable. :-)

I'll look for the links, but they're going to be as buried as this conversation is going to be. Give me some time. I'm sorry about Wandrer... perhaps contact the programmer about shrinking alley fonts. removing entirely, or giving you points for them. I listed several reasons the L.A. community accepted the alley names, but I forgot one more -- public safety. It's a lot easier to call 911 and report "Alley 12345" from your phone than to describe "Oh, I guess it runs north of X Street -- wait, make that south... I think -- and between Y Avenue and I guess Z Road". Sorry I haven't responded to your private message yet. I'll catch up on that later and look for links.

Hey Ray. Except for that vestigial city-alley-turned-parking-lane change (I support that), thank you for NOT going wider with any removals (there are literally thousands of alley names already inputted in L.A. County). 👍

In the last few years, there have been several prominent OSM mappers working in L.A. (with WAY more experience at this than even I have) who have raised similar questions and cited similar thoughts about reference numbering. After friendly debate, the takeaway has always been to leave the alley names. They're all tagged with name:signed=no (which was significant for their acceptance), they add to the usefulness of apps like CityStrides and Wandrer, and, importantly, they contribute to public knowledge (not to mention usage since the City uses these numbers too). That last bit is why I also do deep dives to find official names of all our concrete-lined streams and other tributaries into the L.A. River. If people see an alley or a creek with no name, they respect it and care for it less than if it was the other way around.

Oh, and if you're curious, the official alley names for the city of Burbank came from https://gis.burbankca.gov/ But I have YET to find any official designations for the city of San Fernando, so if you ever find it, please let me know!

Hey, Ray Reh. Good find on the geohub because that was indeed a major source. And you are correct that they are seemingly temporarily removed from display (I actually think it was a glitch, but I haven't tried reporting it yet). But the 5-digit names do appear elsewhere at the city and even the geohub still has them in the KMZ files, etc. I'm linking here to your example alley, https://x3mo.net/LOS-ANGELES-ALLEY-80875 There's been discussion elsewhere at OSM about all this and the consensus seems to be that the 5-digit numbers are the best choice (as opposed to that 10-digit number that nobody has really figured out). And I've referenced the 5-digit numbers in L.A. city permits (I'm a feature film & TV location manager) and they were properly recognized there. :-)
Cheers! ---- Scott

Haha! No. I found the number online. :-)

Yes, it changes per block which actually makes it MORE useful than, say, Burbank's system since it helps to pinpoint more specifically. And, it IS a hill that I'd die on because I've spent literally countless hours over 2 years adding these (as well as streams & rivers, my other project), but, in general, I'd argue it's not niche. If I had an alley behind my house, I'd sure want to know its proper designation. :-) And I mentioned city permit applications, but it's also useful for emergencies (I've even once called 911 about an encampment fire and I referenced the adjacent alley name). And, like I said, they're tagged as to whether they're physically signed or not. Thanks again for the feedback. Cheers! :-)

Hi Yawfle. Thanks for the comment. While I agree that official_ref might be more technically correct, it's less useful since it'll never display to the public in the vast majority of maps. I work in the film industry where it's useful to us to be able to access these alley names for film permit applications, for example. I've added many hundreds (possibly thousands) of these alley names already and my solution has been to use the name:signed=no tag instead, so as to show that there are no physical street signs with these names (except in the rare cases where there actually are signs). As for pitching in, here's where I can use help! Los Angeles uses these 5-digit numbers. Burbank uses a format like "Alley X of Z" (where X is North, South, East, or West, and Z is a major named street). But what about the city of San Fernando?? I haven't been able to find what they designate their alleys (it's possible, of course, that there's simply NO name for them in their city limits, but I can't be sure yet). --- Scott

The current location is just over 1 mile southeast of here. THIS building is an empty shell that is currently either going to be leased or demolished, TBD.

willkmis, I appreciate you taking the extra time to educate me. I'm removing the name=* right now. And when I get a chance a little later today or tomorrow, I'll read further and utilize one or two of the alternate choices that you suggested. Cheers!

I suppose the name could be moved to official_name=*, but let me ask you this. If it’s there instead (and name=* is blank), how would anybody who’s not an OSM editor ever see or find the information?

I read that wiki (thank you), but I still feel as if this is "official usage" which is allowed. And with the name:signed=no, wouldn't GPS systems this *not* reference this name anyway? It's certainly not unnamed=yes or noname=yes when it does have a name. 🤷 As a general rule, I look TO maps to LEARN these kind of details about what’s around me, so I appreciate seeing such trivial descriptors. 👍

As for the source, it's all over the various L.A. databases, including Zone Information & Map Access System. I work for Netflix and we're currently in the process of temporarily shutting down this 1-block stretch for a shoot, so this Frontage Road number was vital for our permitting process. Other people who aren’t familiar with the deep dive databases might appreciate the information being made easier to find next time.