Apology accepted. Thanks malifica. I thought we were in agreement on most things as well so I was a little surprised by this thread. Glad to hear we're back on the same page. And I'm thrilled to hear that those tools can handle multipolygons now. That's a relief.

Yeah, the hole lines are basically telling you where an average golfer will lie up on each of their strokes. So par 3 will simply be tee to green. Par 4 will be somewhere in the fairway, and Par 5 will be two spots on the fairway with the third shot hopefully landing on the green for a 2-putt.

Hey there DF, I just wanted to let you know that you created two multipolygons for the hole at way/1562325085, each of them containing a different set of inner members. I'd normally fix this for people that aren't experienced but thought you might like to see it for yourself and fix it up so you know that it is happening.

Please stop putting extra nodes in the green for the golf=hole centerline like node/14219919706. You're just causing me extra work (and you're wasting your time as well since your work is being undone).

Thanks.

FYI, greens and fairways shouldn't overlap (lines shouldn't cross each other). Also, golf=hole lines shouldn't connect to other lines between the tee and the green.

Yeah, eliminating the "rough-in" would be preferred. It's sets off all sort of Q/A alarms and causes me and others extra work. It's better to just leave your work unsubmitted until you have things polished. Thanks.

I don't know about the visibility settings in the iD editor, but it sounds like you have it figured out. In JOSM, it would only show lines and wouldn't shade in the entire area. And you can also go into a "wireframe" mode where it just shows 1-pixel wide lines instead of 2 pixels.

FYI: holes (the centerline) shouldn't be drawn with so many nodes. See the wiki at golf=hole for more info.

Hey there Bill,

Sorry to be so blunt, but we've talked about this before and these edits are very sloppy. What's going on with them? The satellite imagery is really bad there, but you are still trying to create a fringe around the green, but it is very uneven. Inches wide to several feet wide on the same green. If you can't see it on imagery, maybe it's best if you just leave it out. Also, your bunkers are nowhere near the correct size of the actual bunkers when I look at the same imagery you used. Not to mention how your elements (greens, bunkers, etc) are overlapping in many places. Please work on cleaning these up soon and making them match reality. Thanks.

When drawing golf course areas (i.e. greens, fairways, bunkers, tees, etc.), please be aware that the ways (lines) used to outline those areas must not cross over each other. Fairway outlines shouldn't cross over greens or bunkers or other fairways for example. Take a look at osm.wiki/File:Golf.png for an example of the "Wrong" way to map a fairway and a green, along with the correct way. There are some cases where a fringe exists around a green and you should draw the fairway outline completely around a green, leaving room for the fringe. Other times, the fairway and green butt up against each other. In that case the fairway and green should share the same nodes at the boundary between the two, and every node at the boundary needs to be shared, leaving no gaps. When drawing these shared nodes, editors like iD (built into openstreetmap.org) will "snap" to an existing node if you get close enough. If you have any questions about golf course mapping, feel free to reach out. Thanks.

When drawing golf course areas (i.e. greens, fairways, bunkers, tees, etc.), please be aware that the ways (lines) used to outline those areas must not cross over each other. Fairway outlines shouldn't cross over greens or bunkers or other fairways for example. Take a look at osm.wiki/File:Golf.png for an example of the "Wrong" way to map a fairway and a green, along with the correct way. There are some cases where a fringe exists around a green and you should draw the fairway outline completely around a green, leaving room for the fringe. Other times, the fairway and green butt up against each other. In that case the fairway and green should share the same nodes at the boundary between the two, and every node at the boundary needs to be shared, leaving no gaps. When drawing these shared nodes, editors like iD (built into openstreetmap.org) will "snap" to an existing node if you get close enough. If you have any questions about golf course mapping, feel free to reach out. Thanks.

When drawing golf course areas (i.e. greens, fairways, bunkers, tees, etc.), please be aware that the ways (lines) used to outline those areas must not cross over each other. Fairway outlines shouldn't cross over greens or bunkers or other fairways for example. Take a look at osm.wiki/File:Golf.png for an example of the "Wrong" way to map a fairway and a green, along with the correct way. There are some cases where a fringe exists around a green and you should draw the fairway outline completely around a green, leaving room for the fringe. Other times, the fairway and green butt up against each other. In that case the fairway and green should share the same nodes at the boundary between the two, and every node at the boundary needs to be shared, leaving no gaps. When drawing these shared nodes, editors like iD (built into openstreetmap.org) will "snap" to an existing node if you get close enough. If you have any questions about golf course mapping, feel free to reach out. Thanks.

You have made a common error when you saw a fairway that looked like it didn't have a proper "Feature Type" defined and decided to add the fairway tag. The hole was already properly tagged, but was part of a relation of multiple objects known as a multipolygon. Please read this short wiki page where I've tried to explain what you are looking at and avoid making the mistake in the future. osm.wiki/ID_understanding_golf_course_relations Thanks.

Why did you change the 500m 14th hole from a par 5 to a par 3? Accident, I assume?

Dummy!

RE: way/1556635360 and others...

When drawing golf course areas (such as greens, fairways, bunkers, tees, etc.), please be aware that the ways used to outline those areas can't cross over each other. Fairway outlines shouldn't cross over greens or bunkers or other fairways for example. If you could go back and clean up where you've made this mistake, that would be helpful. But more importantly, if you could stop from doing this in the future, it would be greatly appreciated. Please read the wiki for instructions and examples of how to better map golf courses: leisure=golf_course#Common_mapping_pitfalls. If you have any questions about golf course mapping, feel free to reach out.

Hi Matthew, thanks for getting back to us. A zero-hour block is put in place when a mapper is making errors and not responding to comments or communications trying to establish a dialog. The block is immediately lifted once communication is established. Please make sure you can receive notification emails that are sent to your account.

Did you have a chance to read over the wiki page mentioned above? You are asking if we don't want fairway objects tagged as fairway objects. That's not at all the situation. Maybe I need to work on that wiki page further. Your workflow of drawing the fairway to include the fringe around the green and make the green the inner boundary of a multipolygon is correct. But that's where you should stop. You are then setting the outer boundary as a fairway as well. What that says is that *everything* within that boundary is a fairway, overriding the fact that the relation has already established that the fairway exists every except the green. It's just mathematically incorrect to say that.

And yes, iD doesn't handle areas vs. closed polygons well. You could always try submitting a request for new features, but I think you'd be better off switching to a more advanced editor like JOSM. It will give you much better visualizations of multipolygons for starters. And yes, it is FOSS.

As a side note, I see that you selected several different fairway/green pairs and joined them into a monolithic multipolygon in the last 48 hours. You should avoid doing that. Stick to just fairway/green/bunkers that are contained in a single fairway. While not explicitly called out as wrong, it isn't done anywhere else in the country is probably should be addressed as something to avoid.

I'm always happy to help people map golf courses better. Please feel free to reach out and ask further questions if needed.

FYI, direction of the golf=hole lines is significant. They should point from the tee to the green. I corrected this one and another one you created in the last 24 hours and thought you'd want to know.

Hey nbar,

I noticed your changes on this course, and I see that they can use a lot of improvement. Take a look at way/1553866095 for instance. Granted, the satellite imagery and course quality is really low for this course, but that isn't a good excuse for how this hole is drawn.

You are making separate fairways for the fringe and the main fairway. They should be a single polygon, not split into two.

There is also a gap between the green and the fairway, as if the sliver between the two isn't green nor fairway. You should instead be sharing each and every node at the boundary of two areas like this.

But with that said, since the fairway extends all the way around the green, you should just draw a single line all the way around the green, leaving space for the (presumed) fringe.

Let me know if you need some clarification. Thanks.

You have made a common error when you saw a fairway that looked like it didn't have a proper "Feature Type" defined and decided to add the fairway tag. The hole was already properly tagged, but was part of a relation of multiple objects known as a multipolygon. Please read this short wiki page where I've tried to explain what you are looking at and avoid making the mistake in the future. osm.wiki/ID_understanding_golf_course_relations Thanks.

Hi Matthew, you've made this mistake again on way/1220964773. (I've cleaned it up now.) Please let me know if you've seen this message and let me know if you aren't sure what I'm describing so I can clarify and get you on the right track. thanks.

FYI, you shouldn't compose greens like the 10th by combining two polygons with a hole in the middle for a bunker. Look into how to construct multipolygon relations in the future. (Reach out if you need help.)