OpenStreetMap

Willi2006 has commented on the following diary entries

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* So that is what inaccessible road is! over 1 year ago

Zkir wrote: "Another place http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/146447924 - do you agree that hw=track is unappropriate here? Should be hw=tertiary+surface=unpaved, should not it?"

Short answer: Yes, of course I agree. It must be wrong. It's not mine ;)

Long answer:

I think not necessary to explain. I think we agree on the reasons. In addition according to general and country rules only a highway with ref can be tertiary. I guess it's mapped according to physical characteristics not according to the grid or graph as you would call it. I must admit, not so extreme but I made this error also when starting. Luckily I was able to learn fast to separate classification and physical characteristics and fixed my errors myself. But there might still be one left.

Another example: A way is tagged highway=tertiary (oneway=no) outside villages but tagged as highway=residential within a village. I saw also a tertiary tagged as highway=trunk within a village because it's a dual carriage way (oneway=yes).

But what to do when you find such obvious errors. Just changing is imho a bad idea. We are a community and this might hurt someone for different reasons. Have a look at Beginners Guide item 3..

Usually I look up who did it and when. I try to get a "profile" of the person. Is the person a beginner with just a few changesets or an advanced with 1000 or even more changesets? Is the person mapping local or remote? Has the person local knowledge? Does the person stick to an area or is the person a vagabond?

When the person seems to be a beginner I watch him for a while. Is the person learning? I send an e-mail, say hello, there are others too, there's a Thailand page, several international and a Thailand forum in case you want ask something. Of course this takes time. But it's worth to do that. Thailand desperately needs local mappers preferable with Thai skill. Look at this list ODbL in Thailand.

When the person is the opposite, clearly an advanced, a remote armchair mapper and a vagabond I don't want to spend much time because I prefer mapping. In addition when the person is changing my tagging without contacting me beforehand I'm rather bold in my writing. This is topped when dozens of them appear in the same time frame. :)

* So that is what inaccessible road is! over 1 year ago

Zkir wrote: "Willi, btw, are road statuses set correctly here in your opinion?"

Short answer: Yes, they are. I did it. And I did already hundreds. ;)

Long answer:

The "Thai temples" are called in English "wat". A wat is a monastery, an area where monks live, pray and work. It's not just one or more buildings. More see wikipedia.

The example is a "วัดป่า" which is transcribed as "Wat Pa" or could be translated to "forest temple" indicating that the area is a forest which might not be true anymore. Some are far away, many kilometers, from any village. There might be just a hut where a single monk lives as hermit and only a path leads to it. Or there might be buildings which look like castles and a highway surface=asphalt|concrete and width=4 to 7 is leading to it. From memory in most cases I found the following. A number cruncher might extract exact figures from the database. There's a track which is a couple of 100 metres or some kilometers long and has the physical characteristics surface=compacted|ground, smoothness=bad|horrible, width=2 to 3, starting at a residential, an unclassified or higher highway. The track is used for agriculture traffic and does not end at the wat. From the track a way, highway=service, forks into the area. The physical characteristics of this way can be worse or better. There might be a barrier=wall, barrier=fence, barrier=hedge or no linear barrier. There might be barrier=gate, entrance=yes or no barrier. As in a church visitors are welcome, access=destination.

I understand the current issue is that osrm rejects highway=service branching from highway=track. But this restriction doesn't implement the reality in Thailand. Let's assume I've mapped a track which is many kilometers long. Now someone builds a house to live there close to the end of the track. Or a hermit builds a hut there. There's no settlement, no hamlet. There's only one building. In Thailand you can do that. Should the track now be changed to unclassified. I don't think so.

In addition I never saw or heard that the access to tracks is restricted in Thailand. And Thailand with 60 million inhabitants is the second largest market for pickup trucks behind the United States with 300 million inhabitants. Thus everybody can and many do use tracks as shortcut between villages. I think no reason to tag them all as unclassified.

* So that is what inaccessible road is! over 1 year ago

Classifying a highway, e.g. as unclassified or track, is according to its importance in the grid of highways. It's independent of the highway characteristics or quality which is mapped with other tags like surface, smoothness, tracktype or width. See also "What are the most common mapping mistakes that other users make?" https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/1022/what-are-the-most-common-mapping-mistakes-that-other-users-make

The purpose of unclassified highways is to drive to, from and through villages. The purpose of residential is to drive within a village, town or settlement. The purpose of tracks is primarily agriculture including forest and similar activities. In some countries tracks are usually restricted (access=*) for other vehicles in others not. In experienced it as quite easy looking at aerial images, building the grid of the highways in my head and to distinguish these 3 types. Easier than on the ground.

The physical characteristics of highways can vary enormous even in the same country. An unclassified highway can be oneway=yes, surface=asphalt, lanes=4, smoothness=excellent in big metropolitan areas like Bangkok or surface=sand, width=4 smoothness=bad in a rural area. And a track can be surface=asphalt, smoothness=excellent width=4 but also surface=ground, smoothness=horrible, width=2, i.e. passable with tractors only.

These examples should make it clear that it's not possible to deduce the classification from the physical characteristics.

* So that is what inaccessible road is! over 1 year ago

Well I surely can't and won't represent the Thai community. There's a Thai forum where you posted already http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewforum.php?id=46.

* So that is what inaccessible road is! over 1 year ago

I think it's irresponsible or even arrogant to point remote armchair mappers to another country without contacting the local community first and not giving some guidance which is already available in

Beginners Guide item 3. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners_Guide_1.1

Community Code of Conduct http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Community_Code_of_Conduct_%28Draft%29

Disputes http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disputes