I completely disagree with the don’t overdo it.

Go as detailed as possible in general let’s say a meter or so max level (dependant on the curvature) the example you gave as ‘too detailed’ I think is fine. Your ‘perfect one’ was IMHO terrible and needs at least double the amount of points.

Your reasoning for not adding more points is that someone may need to update in the future. My question is why? The road in question will likely stay that way for decades and a really well mapped curve will not need any changes made to it for all that time. What are they going to update? If the road changes significantly then the whole thing will need to be remapped anyway.

I say with time permitting map it as detailed as you can. The result will be there for a long time.

(I have other issues with that curve too it is to far aligned to one side it should be in the middle of the road and the connecting road should be more curved to reflect what the road….but I digress)

It is impossible to get one style to do everything.

I’ve had no skin in the game for any style for many years but overall I think the OSMCarto does a good job. Probably need to move from tiles to vector based before anything more useful comes along. There we can have thousands of styles easily and ones just for what you want. change the size of walking paths s they look as thick as motorways for veiwing long high level country walks you are can do that, etc

Regarding your style, I am struggling to see some of the differences.

Below we have an unpaved footpath joining onto a paved footpath.

https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=22&lat=52.9321016&lon=-1.5001884

Are these just too similiar to my eyes as I cannot see any difference?

simon,

I don’t do that. I wait for them to do a dozen or so edits over a few days and be active before contact. Not a 1 hit wonder editor. And they still stop. :)

And I am no fan of some of the old timers here who do come across as “I know best you must do it my way” for many things.

And although some (still very small numbers) longer term contributors have been put off by this and stopped mapping (I’ve been tempted before….) I think you misunderstand how very few people actually have anything to do with the community. Hardly anyone even looks at a dairy entry, mailing list, forum, etc. So I am not sure that interaction is putting newer people off.

I have a theory I share in the meetups I go to. That just even contacting someone just to say Hi , nice mapping, etc most of them then actually stop mapping. I have done this many times waiting for a dozens of edits and as soon as contact is made I guess they think “someone is looking at my edits. I don’t like that stalking. I going going to leave.” That is all a bit tongue in cheek but the majority over teh years that I have conatcted just stop and I suspect that is the case for most others if they are being honest.

People just aren’t all that interested in mapping in any great detail.

The vast majority never even make an edit at all of the 8.3 million registered members. Only 1.75 million have made an edit. And only a small percentage have made more than 1 or 2 edits.

I think read a few years ago now when we had about 1 million users with edit there were only 30,000 that had made 100 changesets.

Someone that does hundreds or thousands of changesets (I presume map changes as a metric but whatever) is rare indeed.

“I don’t think it’s 4 month map update cycle, or whatever it was, helped much either. My guess is that most people thought they didn’t actually contribute anything because it took so long for their edits to be displayed on the map.”

That is not the case as when you add something it appears on maps.me for your device. And it the refresh is not every 4 months more like a month or maybe two.

I expect a gradual decline is the number of people actually using maps.me (it is clearly not as popular as it once was) and they only once (that i saw) had the splashscreen when you started it saying we use osm and you can edit it. That was when it launched with editing and obviously the massive uptick in users but they neer mentioned it again so newer users would barely know you could update OSM from it.

maps.me opened a lot of doors for osm with the initial push in editing on there and I’m sure many edited osm via other editors from that exposure to it. you can only add POI so naming a road , or adding a building you would have to do elsewhere.

It is used as a map not an editor first and foremost. The editing is basic - but tbh all i need to add things quickly on the fly. I’m using the map anyway and add missing POIs on the way if I notice. I don’t go out to map with it.

I still haven’t found a mobile editor I like as trying top do everything I don’t get I would rather map from my PC.

Map the roof as surface=grass

Oh tonight. I am busy for the start of it but hopefuly tune in a bit later.

Well done for mapping that. I still fail to understand we people refuse to do armchair mapping. Like it is a dirty unclean part of OSM and shouldn’t be done as it does massive harm. I still think it is massively a force for good. Relying on notes for others to fix instead of fixing things yourself seems a fool errand. Sometimes with the posting notes for someone else to fix (when I could fix it myself) people think there are millions of mappers that are so bored/unobservant that they spend all day just looking for notes for something to do. Obviously, this is not the cause. The amount of regular mappers in the whole of the UK (or the world) is really vanishingly small and we are one of the countries with the most regular mappers.

Let’s take that area as an example. Your note sat there is 3 months no one did anything. The area around it is not well mapped so I’m guessing there are no passionate mappers nearby anyway. But if you look at the other notes around there, they are much older.

Just to the top of your screenshot in the Uni area there are a load of notes 4 years old (on buildings that are 5 years old). So no-one really is looking at these notes which could have been a clue. One of them is about a “courtyard Building” that seems an error and didn’t appear on ariel imagery then and looks an actual courtyard.

Now this is still there, and aerial imagery has been updated, and it is still a courtyard and not a building. (OS doesn’t show a building either)

What are we to do about it? Post another note and the mapping fairies will physically visit. Or do we say with confidence that we can delete the building? I would happily delete it but then I feel that the anti ariel mapping gang will be up in arms about that as I haven’t visited it myself. And think that if you don’t visit it yourself the imagery is lying. Bring out the tin foil hats. Obviously mapping in person on the ground is better and more useful notes of the type “I’ve done my bit, it loads better than it was, if anyone is around here it could do with a survey” are great as well.

That rant over, it does seem like 8 years ago most of that hospital was mapped unsure when everything was deleted. I am a little surprised at the details missing from the hospital I thought (but maybe be mistaken) a year or three ago there was a quarterly challenge about hospitals and medical stuff so thought more would have been caught.

I am often fairly free in the day if you have a virtual OSM meet. (I’m not sure there is a reason for specific localities for virtual meetings. A OSM England or OSM UK I imagine would be fine or even more desirable). That said, I would have joined the OSM London virtual meet but I had no idea it was on. Mailing lists for the win!

I’ll presume you are a mapper on the ground in Panama and your issues are with remote humanitarian mappers.

Looking at your recent changeset comments (well the ones in English anyway and the few longer ones I translated) I can’t see what the problem is with them. You seem to point out problems and seem reasonable with it. I read through the email thread about the HOT/youth mappers and I don’t see too much wrong there either (maybe there was more I missed) expect that it is wasn’t really HOT it seems but old Youth Mappers tasks that completed poorly and you want to know where to turn for help about this. Your language may be a bit abrupt, but I don’t see too many issues there.

I am not sure what the ongoing issues with editors in your area might be and it is difficult with the lack of transparency within DWG to know what you have done that is so bad. I can’t see any edit/changeset wars going on from a quick look. You sure do a lot of changeset comments (I wouldn’t do that many but it is not against the rules) but it is important to know how many/percentage DWG think is an issue.

People stop mapping all the time for all sorts of reasons. I have witnessed people leaving for all sorts of reasons from very minor suggestions to even just sending a “welcome to mapping” message makes some people stop. It is unclear has caused them to stop mapping.

All that said a few tips: In general, very few people reply to changeset comments. Do not get too hung up if no-one replies. People must start somewhere with mapping and mistakes will be made so focus on how big the mistakes are. Look at it like do these edits improve the map or not? Compare their new edits to what was there before and imagine that nothing will change from before they started. Is the map better with their edits or without? If it was a completely blank area and they add some roads that are slightly misaligned and some houses for me that improves the map.

I am not sure what they are doing wrong is it one end of the spectrum “that 1 building is not 100% square out of the 100 you added, or this road is slightly misaligned or not enough curves in it” (in which case you could just ignore it or change the small offending bit yourself without saying anything) or “remapping existing correct data with old outdated imagery and adding things wrong” (it worth saying something)

It is annoying when you receive a “you should map things this way” messages. I know I get annoyed when I have received them and I have told users face to face that sent me them as much.

So try not to send them too often. Let some things just go. Don’t look for every single thing that is not perfect.

Maybe it is more systematic issue that the entire project on Tasking Manager is wrong and outdated and needs to be changed. If for example you were to resubmit it what would you change in the instructions to reduce errors occurring or maybe change the area to focus where it is needed more/less conflicts?

As a non-techinal thing it might be worth noting why this is important.

e.g. maybe say something like: “Every day there are millions of new map updates so to get the most complete map you should refresh your date regularly.”

“Our son and daughter and all their friends depend on Strava/Komoot/Viewranger/AllTrails/ etc for their outdoor activities”

Well, I’m disappointed you haven’t got them mapping yet John.

I can’t believe it has been 3 years you have been mapping. I met you early on your mapping endeavours at all our pub meetups and you are one of the most enthusiastic mappers. Keep it up and hopefully we will meet up again soon.

Talk about privileged OSM problems to have for the Strood Green shopkeepers! Maybe they should move their business to Woolwich https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/51.49170/0.06662 or Hounslow https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/51.46857/-0.36368 😉 I get it can be annoying as you feel under some imaginary pressure to map to the same detail as including garden fences but really, I think there are other bigger things to worry about.

I actually noticed that user mapping Shroud Green a couple of weeks ago when they did it. I thought it was great. Sadly, they seem to have stopped now…hopefully they will do more.

I do understand your concerns as it looks a bit of a mess but I think you are far too harsh on people that do this detailed mapping. I’m all for mad detail but it doesn’t mean I’m going to map that detail from my house oiutwards.

You cannot co-ordinated people to map the unique way that you do.

Everyone has different levels of detail that they want to map/think is important.

Some of the most hardcore mappers in the UK have different things they map. I know some that don’t map shops at all (‘they change too much what is point’), and some that don’t map addresses or local buildings near them on the street even (‘someone else can do that I have other things to do, it is boring’), some only really do rural footpaths and field boundaries and no urban area mapping, some just like doing railways, golf courses, etc, etc. I think there is room for all types. Often there is more than enough stuff to map still and we don’t run out of things to do even missing out on whatever you don’t like mapping/think is boring.

I often too have a different approach. I often I tried to map things that a lot of people will go to. So in the past I have armchaired mapped big motorway/major road traffic junctions that should have been circle or oval shaped but where more boxy, corrected the geometry of slip roads and added grass and woodland around, or I have done football stadiums where many people might go, or huge retail parks that had nothing mapped at all (it was not that many years ago I did the OSM wastelands of East London around Beckton that had huge retail parks not mapped and hundreds of thousands of people go there a month) etc.

I find mapping in detail a small residential cul-de-sac in suburbs a bit pointless in compression. That will only get a handful of people going there. But each to their own.

Interesting Harry about how you see the map building up. If I was to plan it like your utopian dream I wouldn’t do it like you. I would have got all of Zone 1 done. I know it took years to get that completed, those areas of marlybone/mayfair have only just been completed. (It was nearly completed what 6 or 7 years ago at my last London pub meetup) And move outwards from there and get all Zone 2 done. I’m not talking houses with numbers as there are roads, footpaths missing, etc. But that just my opinion of in a ideal world how it would be mapped. As it is everyone should just do their thing. I know major mappers that think (or at least thought, maybe I have changed their mind) that mapping buildings with addresses is pointless. I disagree. The vast majority of consumers that see our data are not interested in the address details at all. Think of all the games like Pokémon GO, simulators that want building outlines and have no need for addresses. Or an overview map of an area for a news article they are not going down to all the house numbers.

Maybe we will get there by hand, I know someone who does not mind adding the addresses via a survey but doesn’t like adding the buildings. Maybe it will be easier with an import in the future if we decided for addresses who knows.

Obviously, it would be nice if everything was mapped in super detail there would be a fantastic. Maybe with enough time it would all be done. Maybe it would encourage new mappers in this patchwork map we have. My road is done but the next road across isn’t I will fill in some gaps rather than ‘all my area is complete I will not start mapping. There is nothing to do.’ or ‘none of my area has anything I will not start mapping. It is too much to do.’ Or they have done fences on the next road across, I will map them to my street with the houses already mapped, or Paul The Archivist has done curbs on the next street along I will start mapping those (well I will not be doing kerbs but someone might ;) )

And already the record has been broken yesterday (14th May 2020) was 7209 users.

I would have the separate shop convenience for that. That is how I map ones that are substantial shops rather than a very basic small petrol station shop. Some of these are fairly big like mini supermarket ones (express/metro) and that looks like one too. I expect most customers just use the shop and not buy fuel. But all the ones I have mapped like this have separate Fuel brands (Texaco, etc) to the supermarket/convenience store (Co-op)

I can’t really help with the asda living never even heard of them let along seen them but it sounds like an awkward one like so many other chains where it is not really a traditional department store we would all recognize but sells all sorts of stuff. But I am not more than happy having a general consensus for consistency though as I think that is more important than someone slightly disagreeing with 1 tag.

So are all the asdas in the country now added?

I would suggest all Currys PCWorlds have a carphone warehouse after the change (if they do not already) they are all the same company so maybe the shop tag for Carphone warehouse can die completely

Things will change so quick now in retail It will be difficult to keep up with the closures in the next 6 months/year. At least in the UK there are some major high traffic areas areas that are so future proofed by existing mapping they will look complete.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/53.46543/-2.34846

As stated before I think access=delivery;private is not needed and just makes the whole things overly complex creating higher barriers to entry to osm. Delivery implies delivery drivery AND (and always and from what I can understand) authorized personal (eg residents in this case)

I am not sure access=delivery;private say anything more then what access=delivery is.

Yeah I get that. But if you are doing a group of entrances around an estate like the pic (and in context like they meant) then that is cool - a managable amount for a changeset for the area.

MAgick94,

just access=delivery will keep the general public away and allow deliveries