OpenStreetMap logo OpenStreetMap

Changeset When Comment
76017770 almost 6 years ago

I concern this could turn into political argument, so I say first: this is my last reply here.

The current situation on OSM is is not perfect, but the it is the most close possible to the current situation on ground.
The map does not reflect the desired situation for some people but *the situation on ground*.
If you doubt it, you can visit East Jerusalem or the Golan, ask locals who paves the roads, who installs infrastructure and who charges taxes. They will all answer it is Israel or its sub-authorities.
The question may be asked: In most areas of the West Bank, Israel is paves the roads, installs infrastructure and charges taxes. why not including them in Israel? The answer is that although Israel invests in these areas, it has not declared them as its territory, and therefore the territory cannot be labeled as Israeli territory.

In the past, various "editing wars" were taken place in OSM regarding the marking of borders between Israel and the Palestinian territories. People fought physically to include these places in their territory. You can't assume they'll avoid virtual wars for that. However, the existing situation has not changed for a long time. If you ask me, I'm not going to change anything. I do not intend to return to these wars again.

Finally, OSM data is free. Therefore, if someone wants to mark any boundaries on the map he can download the data and create a custom made map by himself.

Regards, Or

82759775 almost 6 years ago

Tnx.

76017770 almost 6 years ago

Hello,

I would be happy to talk with you about this topic from your active, regular account.

It is somewhat suspicious to talk to someone through a newly opened account, without knowing who he is, and without the possibility of making sure no attempt is made to provocate on a politically sensitive issue.

Regards, Or

79066888 almost 6 years ago

Same. Just removed on changeset #81356496, thx!

74551620 almost 6 years ago

Yep, way #725202230 probably added by mistake. Just removed it on changeset #81356438. tnx for attention.

79066888 almost 6 years ago

Fixed on changeset #80602239

79066888 almost 6 years ago

In the changeset i've imported some of admin_level=8 boundaries of Gaza Strip. This specific way is not needed, and can be removed (imported by mistake). Thank for your attention.

80255141 almost 6 years ago

Hi,
In this changeset I have accurated and updated the roads in Ashkelon north interchange and its area.
This specific disconnection was made by mistake, and fixed in changeset #80312970 . thanks for attention.

79385346 almost 6 years ago

Hi FGFR!
Thanks for your caring for Israel.
I just wanted to notify you that the border of Israel was OK before your edit, it may have been looking split, because the ways that make up the Israel-Lebanon border are also used to create the borders of some local authorities in Israel and Lebanon.
In your changes you merged some ways, which caused problems with the borders of the local authorities, so I have to revert this changeset.
Thanks again for your caring for Israel and the accuracy of OpenStreetMap.
Or

75329214 about 6 years ago

@SomeoneElse
-The users:Israel forum is also hosting the Palestinian editors, as Israel and the territories are in fact one geographic unit, plus there's no Palestinian forum.
-Ok, I accept the other reasons, but still don't think that internatinal discussion will solve the issue, because many users who are not living in our area do not really know what the actual situation is (where Israel have actual control and where the PA have actual control etc. [the answer is not like the area mapped in OSM right now]).
- Sorry for not beeing polite, but my "tip" is true. I promise you that the whole Israel-Arab confict was solved long time ago if the Europeans and the Americans was putting their hands out of it.

75329214 about 6 years ago

(from my conversation with user Mr Massri, I understand that this is not the first time user wambacher reverting his edits)

75329214 about 6 years ago

If you wish to open this discussion to be international you should explain why do you think it is an international issue.
As far as I understand the only reason to make it international is to allow you participate, as you are the only user changing the tag "boundary=disputed" in the relation of the Palestinian Territories to "boundary=administrative" (as i see in the history of this relation) while many other users keep it "boundary=disputed".
I think this issue is pure local issue and only users from this area sould participate.
Word besides, a tip from me: I advise Europeans not to interfere with the problems of the Middle East, also in real life, off the internet. Solve your own problems. The culture here is different from yours and you sometimes find it hard to understand.

75329214 about 6 years ago

I think it better having further discussion at users: Israel forum, https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewforum.php?id=33 since most of the users who have opinion on this topic found there.

I will open a new discussion there tomorrow, because this evening a holiday will start here in Israel and not all users will be available (so am I :) )

Regards, Or

75329214 about 6 years ago

So, heres my explanation why Palestinian Authority relation sould be marked as "boundary=disputed" (copy-pasted from my discussion with mr. walter aka wambacher)

1. Due to the PA’s declaration regarding their demanded border (They seek to reserve the right to declare any area of Palestine as it was during the British Mandate between 1920-1948, as their territory, not only within the Green Line [the former border between Israel and Jordan in the years 1948-1967] and the Jordan river).

2. Due to the non-recognition of Israel of a state called “Palestine”, nor the non-recognition of sovereignty of any other state in the territories where Israel holds the actual control.

3. Due to the lack of actual control of the Palestinian Authority in most areas of the West Bank.

4. Palestinian Authority claim to be “State of Palestine” is not making it a country. They do not have one central government, they do not own an army, they do not have defined borders and do not have full sovereignty over territories inhabited by their population. In addition, they find it difficult to enforce their partial sovereignty in areas where Israel has given them control. They find it difficult to fulfill their obligations to their population and countries in the region, and are mostly busy encouraging their residents to commit suicide rather than improving their quality of life. So sorry, Palestine in not country, hardly an autonomous authority.

75329214 about 6 years ago

Hi Andy,
At first glace everything looks Ok. I'll make some further checks to make sure it all Ok.
BTW, I see you have revertedet the relation of the boundary of the Palestinian Territories with the tag "boundary=administrative", but it sould be "boundary=disputed" as it was before. I'll explain why in the following comment.
Regards, Or

75329214 over 6 years ago

Mistake Correction: The username is Mr Massri and not MrMassari (my apologies to this user. Massri in Arabic means Egyptian, while Massari means salary)

75329214 over 6 years ago

Check out the history of this relation:
relation/1703814/history

The "disputed" tag was changed by user MrMassari in changeset #75327038.

I politely suggest that you avoid editing wars with other users, especially if you are unfamiliar with the situation on this area (from previous correspondence I realized you were from Germany)

75329214 over 6 years ago

You are crazy, I don't know what to say. Leave me alone. Stop blaming me of all the problems in this area.
I did not changed the "Disputed" tag at all. In this changeset I updated the boundaries of Umm al-Fahm and Maale Iron, which changed also this relation because of way splitted.

74621080 over 6 years ago

Thanks! fixed on changeset #75188301

74905377 over 6 years ago

Hi Sanniu, Thanks for notifying me, You are right. The ways in this changeset was imported from external source and was probably imported twice by mistake.
Fixed in chageset #74947282.
I'm now working on renewing the boundries of all of the local authorities in Israel.