Changeset: 71122884
put cycleway:right=shoulder and bicycle=use_sidepath on São Paulo Marginais
Closed by danlessa
Tags
created_by | JOSM/1.5 (15155 en) |
---|---|
source | Local laws and 5yrs+ of cycling experience |
Discussion
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Comment from emvee
Hi danilolessa,
Thanks for updating openstreetmap to indicate where in São Paulo you can cycle using "cycleway:right=shoulder"!
One remark on bicycle=use_sidepath. This tag should not be used unless there is a seperate sidepath, see bicycle=use_sidepath, it means something like bicycle=no and that does not match cycleway:right=shoulder
I am trying to fix these problem world-wide and São Paulo is number 1 ;-)
http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/en/errors/?item=3032&class=30329
Greetings,
Martin.
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Comment from danlessa
Hi Martin! Thanks for the note.
What's the best practice then? Bicycle=yes?
The situation on the road is that there is a lot of highways in São Paulo which have shoulders, and a lot of road cyclists go through them.
Riding on the highways isn't exactly an pleasant experience, and there is a lot of grey area surrounding cycling on it. Nevertheless, it is where the people go for riding
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Comment from emvee
Yes, better change bicycle=use_sidepath into bicycle=yes or remove the bicycle tag.
For ways with "highway=motorway" that is necessary as the default restrictions for motorways is not to allow bicycles, see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bicycle#Bicycle_Restrictions but for highway=primary/seconday/tertiary you could remove the bicycle tag completely.
To indicate that it is not exactly an pleasant experience, you could use class:bicycle=-2 or class:bicycle=-3, see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:class:bicycle
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Comment from danlessa
Thanks for the references!
I'll use these recommendations for the next changes
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Comment from emvee
Just for your reference, I see you are using JOSM: You can download all ways with "problems" using File->Download, Download from Overpass API and then enter:
[out:xml][timeout:90][bbox:{{bbox}}];
(
way["bicycle"="use_sidepath"]["cycleway:right"="shoulder"];
);
(._;>;);
out meta;Also Osmose can show you a map
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Comment from emvee
Do you have any problem if I change these objects, that is, remove bicycle=use_sidepath?
For ways tagged as "highway=motorway" I will then and add bicycle=yes + class:bicycle=-2
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Comment from emvee
Hi danilolessa,
http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/en/errors/?item=3032&class=30329 is almost clean apart from Sao Paulo.
I plan to remove "bicycle=use_sidepath" from these roads because:
1) There is no side-path (a shoulder is part of the way)
2) "bicycle=use_sidepath" is interpreted by routers as "bicycle=no" and this changeset indicates you are allowed to cycle there
3) "bicycle=use_sidepath" if there is a law that tells a cyclist to use the sidepath instead of the normal road, AFAIK that is not the case for Sao Paulo -
Comment from danlessa
Hey emvee, I've just updated it: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/88054258
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Comment from emvee
Thanks, apart from bicycle=yes also class:bicycle=-2 added I see, good!
Greetings,
Martin.
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Comment from emvee
It took some time for Osmose to update and the great majority of the problem is gone, but I still see in the order of 50 roads tagged with "bicycle=use_sidepath with cycleway:right=shoulder"
http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/en/errors/?source=37211&item=3032&class=30329
See above, it is easy to load those ways in JOSM, could you fix those ~50 remaining ways also?
Thanks,
Martin.
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Comment from danlessa
Just did that, Thanks Martin for the tips!
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Comment from ftrebien
Please don't do mass edits without checking definitions and common practice first. Also, do get in touch with the local community: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pt:Canais_para_contato
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Comment from danlessa
Thanks, I'll get in touch
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