Changeset: 67751400
adding public_transport details to Muni street railways
Closed by clay_c
Tags
created_by | JOSM/1.5 (14824 en) |
---|---|
source | Mapbox Satellite |
Discussion
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Comment from oba510
Why are you changing all the railway=tram_stop nodes to railway=stop? It seems like a less-specific way of tagging the stops, and causes them to stop rendering on most maps.
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Comment from clay_c
See this section in the [OSM Wiki](https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Trams#Tram_stops). Following the updated public transport schema, `public_transport=stop_position` with `tram=yes` is semantically the same as `railway=tram_stop`, and it is up to the renderers to begin supporting that. In fact, OpenRailwayMap and ÖPNVKarte seem to support it just fine.
It looks like the new consensus is to use `railway=stop` for a node on the tracks representing where the driver stops, and `railway=tram_stop` for a node off the line denoting where the label should go, similarly to `railway=station` or `railway=halt`. Check out Karlsruhe, Germany for a good, complete example of this.
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Comment from clay_c
So to be clear, each tram stop will still end up having a `railway=tram_stop` once my work is finished. This is just part of a process to add more fine-grained, quasi-standardized details to the public transport systems here. What I've done in this situation before is to retag the nodes on the lines as `railway=stop` rather than suffer the hassle of ungluing the nodes from the lines and maintaining their semantics. Just haven't yet gotten to the step where I add nodes for labels.
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Comment from oba510
About a year(?) ago I systematically went through all of the Muni Metro lines (but not the cable cars, and didn't finish the F line) and added every stop and platform in the city, and tried to standardize it as best as I could, given that it's an odd system where modern light rail trains often stop in the middle of the street with nothing resembling a station - little or no infrastructure whatsoever except a yellow rectangle painted on the tracks.
Wherever the stop met the bare minimum standard to be called a light rail station (which I arbitrarily decided was some kind of platform long enough that people don't have to step into traffic) it was mapped as a railway=station. For the E line and the remaining Muni Metro stops I followed https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:railway%3Dtram_stop which says that it should go on the tracks, and put it on the same node as public_transport=stop_position.
Everything should already have the standard public_transport tags and wherever there is a platform of some kind there should already be a stop_area relation. Every platform was also tagged with railway=platform which conflicts with railway=tram_stop.
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Comment from clay_c
Thank you for your work! I don't think any of the details you've added to the map conflict with an additional center/label node tagged railway=tram_stop. I'll admit the wiki article on that tag is pretty unhelpful and needs to be updated. It mentions the new schema, as you pointed out, but then goes on to explain how to map it according to the *old* schema.
As I've been going through and updating every passenger railway throughout California, I've been using the area around Karlsruhe, Germany as a reference of best practices. Over there, it seems railway=tram_stop is used in a similar fashion to railway=station, and the nodes on the tracks where the driver stops are tagged railway=stop and tram=yes. This seems like a sensible approach, and neatly organizes the rather complicated mixture of light rail and tram data in the rail network. I'd like to copy that approach here.
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Comment from clay_c
As for distinguishing railway=* for stops on Muni trackage, I think it seems fit to use railway=tram_stop for flag stops and railway=station for the wheelchair-accessible stops where trains always call (in other words, all the labeled stations on the official Muni Metro map).
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Comment from oba510
That had been my first thought, but some of the surface-level wheelchair accessible stops are actually a separate ramp that can be a block or more away from the normal stop. In practice they are hardly ever used unless someone specifically needs them, since the steps on the train need to be raised and lowered.
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Comment from clay_c
Yeah. We can map wheelchair support with wheelchair=yes or wheelchair=designated. I think what's important is that the non-flag stops are one level up from the flag stops in the railway=station vs. railway=tram_stop hierarchy.
Ways (1-20 of 39)
- 1
- 2
- Lombard Street (23157849), v17
- Muni F (29481854), v45
- Hyde (30035696), v19
- 43100042, v22
- Hyde Street (87297164), v14
- Grant Avenue (91181758), v14
- Muni F (95623728), v35
- 142961068, v4
- 142961070, v10
- 142961078, v12
- 144344604, v7
- 144344606, v17
- 144344607, v17
- 144346225, v9
- 144346227, v16
- 144346228, v15
- 144779080, v10
- 144779083, v7
- Mason (144779085), v8
- 144783747, v15
Relations (1-20 of 31)
- 1
- 2
- 50 (32312), v126
- 6-Haight/Parnassus: Outbound to The Inner Sunset (2007651), v60
- 6-Haight/Parnassus: Inbound to Downtown (2007652), v59
- F-Market & Wharves: Outbound to Castro (2007934), v19
- 2-Clement: Outbound to The Richmond (2978593), v34
- 9-San Bruno: Inbound to Downtown (normal weekday) (2981257), v82
- 9-San Bruno: Outbound to Visitacion Valley (normal weekday) (2981258), v82
- 14-Mission: Inbound to Downtown (3000713), v63
- 7X-Noriega Express: Inbound to Downtown (3000877), v48
- 21-Hayes: Inbound to Downtown (3001341), v30
- 21-Hayes: Outbound to Inner Richmond (3001342), v29
- 14R-Mission Rapid: Inbound to Downtown (3406707), v69
- 14X-Mission Express: Inbound to Downtown (3406709), v50
- 9R-San Bruno Rapid: Inbound to Downtown (3408121), v63
- 31-Balboa: Inbound to Downtown (3409320), v35
- 31-Balboa: Outbound to Outer Richmond (3409321), v37
- 41-Union: Outbound to Marina District (3413069), v25
- 82X-Levi Plaza Express: Inbound to Levi Plaza (3418921), v26
- K-Owl: Inbound to Downtown (3419226), v68
- K-Owl: Outbound to Balboa Park (3419227), v70
Nodes (1-20 of 439)
- 65305626, v6
- 65326714, v9
- 65367869, v8
- Civic Center (257074010), v18
- 258756405, v31
- 23rd Street (293818475), v13
- Marin Street (293818833), v22
- Sunnydale (293819257), v19
- 295188922, v9
- Castro (297863017), v17
- Van Ness (297863037), v11
- Church (301506011), v13
- 317081446, v7
- 317081639, v7
- 15678 (377853195), v9
- 381948686, v3
- 15669 (384345790), v7
- 15694 (386342927), v6
- 15640 (386388769), v4
- 15685 (386573306), v4
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