Changeset: 47517897
Germany: Fixed polygons relations, see https://github.com/osmlab/fixing-polygons-in-osm/issues/15
Closed by emvee
Tags
created_by | JOSM/1.5 (11826 en) |
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source | openstreetmap data |
Discussion
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Comment from Polarbear
Hallo, was ist das denn für ein seltsames MP-Gebilde, dem du den Namen "Neue Wiesen" gegeben hast?
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4709806
Der Name basiert offenbar auf einem Objekt https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/28361276/history in v.3 von 2008, als es noch 4,7 qkm Hochgebirgsvegetation (natural=fell) war. Das MP ist erst 2015 dazu angelegt worden, im nördlichen Teil als durchgängige Fläche, im südlichen Teil der Untergrund unter Wegen unter Aussparung der Felder.In den Luftbildern 2009-2016 sehe ich aber immer Ackerfurchen auch im nördlichen Teil.
Der eigentliche Stadtrandpark "Neue Wiesen" ist hingegen nur 12 Ha = 0.12 qkm gross. http://www.berliner-zeitung.de/park-ist-zwoelf-hektar-gross--neue-wiesen--in-karow-nord-eroeffnet-16590338 - kurioserweise ist dieser eigentliche Park aus dem Monster-MP als 'inner" ausgespart.
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Comment from emvee
Hi Polarbear,
Reading German is not really a problem for me but writing takes much more time, so excuse me for answering in English.
The Berliner Zeitung article indeed gives the name "Stadtrandpark Neue Wiesen" to the 12 Ha = 0.12 qkm area but it seems to me more than the park is called "Neue Wiesen", see for example https://www.verden.de/regional/gebiete/baugebiet-neue-wiesen-900000001-20680.html?titel=Baugebiet+Neue+Wiesen
The only thing I did was indeed moving the name from https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/28361276/history to the MP as the areas did overlap.
If there is better information on what the limit is of "Neue Wiesen" I would be good to update the openstreetdata; reverting the change will not improve things I think.
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Comment from Polarbear
Thanks for the clarification. The Verden link you provide refers to a town in Lower Saxony, about 350 km away from Berlin! This is completely unrelated.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/60942472
As the newspaper about the park opening in Berlin-Karow cites the organisers to have the name adopted from a regional landscape name in undisclosed historic maps, I checked a map archive reaching back to 1860, where no such naming could be found.
The general problem with mechanically "fixing" things, including modernising the MP tagging style, is that it propagates mapping mistakes, and gives them a new and current "paint". Often mistakes were made by inexperienced mappers, and fixing them should dig into the roots of the problem and not just adjust the tagging style.
In the specific case, I'll resolve the MP and map the 12ha park appropriately, derived from local information. -
Comment from emvee
Hi Polarbear,
Yes, the link to the Baugebiet Neue Wiesen was an error, but doing some more searching I think the Neue Wiesen in Berlin is not only the 12 ha park, see for instance http://www.stiftung-naturschutz.de/fileadmin/img/pdf/Kleine_Anfragen/S17-13193.pdf:
"LSG 42 Neue Wiesen,
Verordnung zum Schutz der
Landschaft der Neuen Wiesen im Bezirk Köpenick von
Berlin vom 3. April 1995, GVBl. S. 237, 76,52ha"While I make errors for sure I think this was not an mistake, https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/28361276/history#map=14/52.6036/13.4991 clearly show that the whole area was called "Neue Wiesen" before this change.
Based on your comment I agree that likely not the whole area is called "Neue Wiesen" but probably it is good to contact @osmwandl because he/she added the name to https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/28361276 eight years ago.
Would be good to see what was the area when he made the change but I can not find a tool to do that (http://osmhv.openstreetmap.de/changeset.jsp?id=737385 is erroring out) It might be also good to contact other users that edited way 28361276 after that (@hagax, @Schisch, @g0ldfish, @Papalinux, @Verkersrot, @atpl_pilot, @geozeisig and @anbr as the edited the way and might know more.
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Comment from Polarbear
LSG 42 Neue Wiesen is again a mismatch, it is in Berlin's district of Köpenick, mapped here https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/35282169
The object in discussion is half in the district of Pankow, half in the state of Brandenburg, county Barnim. -
Comment from emvee
After I wrote my last reply I did read this Dutch article https://www.trouw.nl/home/waarom-je-in-berlijn-eenvoudig-onvindbaar-bent~ae8e2be7/, eight Berlinerstraße and minimal two "Neue Wiesen's. Based on that I will stop searching for information on "Neue Wiesen" in Berlin. ;-)
Wat about the rest of the previous reply I wrote? It is good fun to find errors but in the end it would be good to agree on how to solve the problem you flagged.
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Comment from Polarbear
Fixed in CS 50309693, no response from the original mapper.
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Comment from emvee
Thanks for checking and fixing!
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Comment from !bm
I have stumbled upon https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4090028 (and thus this changeset) tagged w/ natural=wood (amidst landuse=forest) and name=Referenzfläche – I doubt this to be correct.
See https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/2644552 (same as here in German)
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Comment from emvee
I did react in https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/2644552 but this is once more a side effect of moving the name tag from the outer way to the relation.
If you are sure things are incorrect and know how to correct it, please do so.
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