Changeset: 41748491
Hiking path
Closed by juhanjuku
Tags
created_by | JOSM/1.5 (10786 en) |
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source | survey + GPS |
Discussion
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Comment from qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq
Hi, what's the source for these routes?
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6535295
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6562171
The northern one even goes through private property, I wonder if it's still accessible. -
Comment from juhanjuku
Hi, source is my gps. We have used this route several times with bicycles.
To be honest, last time maybe 3 years ago. There was no problems passing private properties. -
Comment from qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq
The problem I have with it is that it looks like your personal route. If everyone starts to add them we'll drown in them. There are more specialized services for this like Komoot.
>There was no problems passing private properties.
The exact place I'm talking about is here
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/61328529
I'm kinda interested if the owners are ok with it or they just didn't see you / bother with it. It looks like a shortest route between Keila and Saue and is likely to be routed through. Access tags could be set there.I once hiked abroad on an official route through private property to be greeted by a dog who didn't want to let me through.
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Comment from juhanjuku
I can't understand your point. Why can't I put here nice route for others to follow? We can have different views about OSM purpose and I'm glad we have here something for everyone.
I see, you have several edits in Estonia, so I assume you know about 'every mans right' in Estonia. By law, everyone can pass trough private land if there is no fence on sign from owner -
Comment from Pikse
This doesn't seem right to me either, and it's not only about our personal views. The point is that the data in OSM is supposed to be verifiable, see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Verifiability
GPS data (user knowledge) can be used to verify that the path exists on the ground. Whether this path is part of some route is another matter which needs separate verification. There should be way signs or an information board, or publication independent of particular mapper, based on which other users can collaborate and improve this data.
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Comment from qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq
>Why can't I put here nice route for others to follow?
Because it's an arbitrary personal route. This data is not verifiable and subjective, it's not marked and not publicized as an "official" route. I can make so many IMO nice routes you'll tire of managing relations when editing roads. They'll also create noise on maps like https://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/ . There are many nice routers which can help with creating a custom route.
Every mans right doesn't apply to yards which is the case here, that's why I'm curious.
"Luba viibida võõral maatükil, välja arvatud õuemaal, eeldatakse olevat, kui omanik ei ole maatükki piiranud või tähistanud viisil, millest ilmneb tahe piirata võõraste viibimist maatükil, või kui tahe piirata viibimist ei ilmne muudest asjaoludest."
https://www.riigiteataja.ee/akt/117032023031?leiaKehtiv -
Comment from juhanjuku
If you look at waymarkedtrails in Estonia, you see that I have put there almost all official hiking routes which exist in Estonia (except far south) Where do you see noise? I'm looking on every 'nice routers' you suggest and I can't find any new routes where to go at weekends, so for me those unverified, unofficial routes from other hikers in OSM are very welcomed.
You sound here like government officials whos only purpose is to follow rules, forgetting that OSM was made by community to serve needs of community. If you need official, all points verified map, you can take Maaameti maps. They are way more detailed and accurate. Or are you building competitor to official maps, why we need this? -
Comment from dgmapping
It's just a matter of principle - OSM is not a suitable place for storing or sharing your personal favorite routes. There are so many better platforms for that.
PS: Maa-ameti maps are not always very accurate, especially when it comes to small paths and trails in the woods. In some cases OSM data can be better.
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Comment from qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq
>Where do you see noise?
I don't. Because most of the trails are official, great work BTW!But if everyone starts to add their personal routes this could get complicated. Right now there are only those 2 which just raise a question, but if we started to add them it will change.
I do think we need some rules.
Ways (2)
Relations (1)
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