Changeset: 135167390
complétion du corridor rhin-alpin: maasvlakte-cologne
Closed by AurélienQ
Tags
created_by | JOSM/1.5 (18678 fr) |
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source | https://transport.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2022-02/ralp_corridor_final_report_2020.pdf |
Discussion
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Comment from IIVQ
Hi La_voie_de_la_Raison,
As per the discussion in https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/railway-superroutes/99110/35 I would like you to remove this pseudo-route (and other sections of the rhine-alpine corridor) as well.
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Comment from stevea
It is well-established that OSM creates neither components of nor any whole of the Trans-European Transport Network (a "combined road-rail planning network"). Please remove these (again, as you have done before and acknowledged were wrong in that thread). Do not enter additional components of this / these.
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Comment from AurélienQ
There are no problems for me to delet this relation, but I don't want to do it by myself.
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Comment from stevea
Well, then ask for help specifically here. Say "I cannot do it myself" not "I don't want to do it by myself." Unless you are a child, and if so, say so, and we will do it for you. And, don't do this again.
Otherwise, remove it yourself.
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Comment from IIVQ
I removed them.
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Comment from AurélienQ
@stevea, don’t say that because I’m under 18, I’m a child, so I "don’t know how to do it".
I don’t like your judgment. I can use revert.osmz.ru or JOSM perfectly to review changesets.
And if I wrote "I don’t want to do it," it’s because I don’t want to do it, not because I can’t.
Without any pretence, I think many OSM contributors are more childish in their head than I am.
Besides, I don’t like your judgment on one thing that you think is a mistake, when I have thousands of good contributions. -
Comment from stevea
When you repeatedly make the same mistake (after being told it is a mistake, and agreeing with us — the wider community — that it was a mistake, and then correcting your mistake), you deserve some judgment, even judgement which gets increasingly harsh.
OSM is a serious project, with serious data and serious people who want to maintain high quality in our data. Sometimes (as here) we must pass judgement when we see that others are "polluting" our map with bad data. Such judgement is not deserved for a "first mistake." (And you received only courtesy when this happened the first time). But when such a large mistake is repeated, the OSM community can, should and will judge such action as hostile to our mapping practices.
Especially when it is rebuffed with "but I don't want to delete it myself." That truly does appear like childish behavior (so it appears I guessed correctly that you are "under 18"). When either adults or children repeatedly add bad data to the map (in similar fashion to how they have done so recently, knowing it was wrong), such behavior will be rebuffed by the OSM community — with (sometimes harsh) judgment. If you don't like being treated like a child when acting childish, perhaps you should find another project to participate in. Otherwise, you will discover that thinking you do not deserve judgement will continue to surprise you, because you do deserve judgement.
It's fairly easy to follow our community guidelines, especially after you have been repeatedly told. Do so, without entering bad data, and you will receive no judgment. In fact, I frequently offer accolades and congratulations to (especially newer) mappers who map well — right here in changeset comments! On the flip-side, when there are errors, and especially repeated errors, you are going to hear about it. If you consider that "judgment," that's because it is, and again, it is deserved.
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Comment from AurélienQ
Regarding my age, I have no doubt that you went on my profile, as it is indicated. Lying about the fact that you would have "guessed" my old man, does not put you in any position to teach a lesson.
In addition, I would like you to check your sources: look at the last date of publication of these changes that you do not approve and the date of the first remark made to me on this subject, you would observe that I have taken this remark into account.
Finally, I would point out that I never deviated from the rules of OSM.
The information I have entered, contrary to what you imply, is sourced, reliable, and useful.
If I do not want to cancel my changes, it is not for nothing, and it is indeed a service that I ask someone. Others indeed agree with me that it is difficult to remove many modifications made by oneself and sense no evil intent, but which were made just because there is a blur in the osm rules.Therefore, I am not guilty of anything, nor to blame, nor to judge. Nothing gives you the right to threaten me.
I am not trying to create tensions, just to explain myself, and to remind you that value does not affect age.
PS: English is not my mother tongue, so there may be some translation errors in my message.
De plus, j'aimerais que vous vérifiez vos sources : regardez la dernière date d'édition de ces changements que vous n'approuvez pas et la date de la première remarque qui m'a été faite à ce sujet, vous observeriez que j'ai tenu compte de cette remarque.
Enfin, je vous ferais remarquer que jamais je me suis écarté des rêgles d'OSM.
Les informations que j'ai rentrés, contrairement à ce que vous insinuez, sont sourcées, fiables, et utiles.
Si je n'ai pas envie d'annuler mes changements, ce n'est pas pour rien, et c'est donc en effet un service que je demande à quelqu'un. D'autres sont en effet d'accord avec moi pour dire qu'il est difficile de supprimer des nombreuses modification effectuée par soi même et sens aucune intention mauvaise, mais qui ont été faite juste parce qu'il y a un flou dans les rêgles d'osm.Je ne suis donc, ni coupable de quoi que ce soit, ni à blâmer, ni à juger. Rien ne vous donne le droit de me menacer.
Je ne cherche pas à créer de tensions, juste à m'expliquer, et à vous rappeler que la valeur n'attent pas l'âge.
PS: l'anglais n'est pas ma langue maternelle et il est donc possible qu'il y ai des erreurs de traductions dans mon message.
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Comment from stevea
You would be incorrect that I checked your profile to determine your age; I did not. I simply guessed (by your behavior, the "but I don't want to do it by myself" sounded childish, so I guessed correctly).
Let's tone down what shouldn't be aggressive nor angry. I am not trying to create tensions, either. I most certainly have not threatened you, nor do I mean to do so.
If you find it "difficult to remove what you have added to the map," that is a problem. It actually does mean that you should not be adding things to the map in the first place (if you are unable or unwilling to remove them, especially if they are in error, and very especially if they are the same type of error data which you have entered before as an error, then you did it again).
Your error data have been removed by another OSM volunteer (IIVQ). Please: do not add more "rail data" to OSM.
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Comment from AurélienQ
I want to clarify that since this error, as soon as I am in a blur of OSM, I ask on the forum OSM-France the opinion of everyone.
Similarly, removing a lot of work that takes several hours and is well-intentioned gives the impression that everything we do is useless. Although that is not the case.
I am not the only one to have this feeling, I was able to see it through this same forum. Besides, it was not at all young people who had this feeling, some are even members of the board of directors of OSM-France. (so you guessed correctly, but by chance 😉)
What I meant by "I don’t want to do it" is that I prefer that someone else "destroy" my work, but that if some people think it’s better for me to do it, I would do it without difficulty.I am glad that this discussion ends calmly, because this is sometimes not the case behind a screen.
Have a great week
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Comment from stevea
Thank you for your additional comments. I am glad we found some common ground, that the incorrect data have been removed, and that this sort of error will not happen again (by you adding rail data which OSM agrees should not be in our map).
There are some kinds of rail data we do add to our map and some kinds of rail data (like the kind you entered) which we do not add to our map. Thank you for observing and respecting that distinction.
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