Changeset: 126423457
merge POI and building; https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#One_feature,_one_OSM_element
Closed by rohieb
Tags
created_by | JOSM/1.5 (17428 Debian en) |
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source | extrapolation |
Discussion
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Comment from Hungerburg
Restaurant und Gebäude sind nicht Eins.
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Comment from Mateusz Konieczny
To quote from https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/One_feature,_one_OSM_element
"Examples of bad situations (...) Mapping hotel and restaurant within hotel as one object, with tourism=hotel and amenity=restaurant on one node or area. It is causing problems as soon as any more detailed tags such as opening_hours=* would be added"
Disclaimer: I think I added this example recently there.
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Comment from Mateusz Konieczny
Wait, from copy paste. I wanted to use "Shop in a building mapped as a single object with building=* and shop=* and name=* (which will often apply only to POI). This one is more debatable, and many mappers consider it as a valid tagging."
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Comment from Mateusz Konieczny
BTW, this edit is being discussed at https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/good-practice-one-feature-one-osm-element/3040/3
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Comment from Hungerburg
I did overreact; The changeset comment is quite bold though. One might consider the restaurant redundant, as alpine_hut includes alimentation.
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Comment from rohieb
Thanks for the pointer to the separate discussion. I was of the impression that the alpine hut and the restaurant described the same item, but if the restaurant has a different owner, then the principle I cited doesn't apply here. I will revert this edit, and be more careful in the future when working without local knowledge.
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Comment from rohieb
Wait. https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/524217582/history already had both amenity=restaurant and tourism=alpine_hut, but you're saying the two should be different POIs because they have different owners/are different companies?
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Comment from Hungerburg
Not certain anymore, if alpine_hut is even correct here. It certainly is not a "Schutzhütte". All the other restaurants (except Enzianhütte) you removed the alpine_hut tag and moved the restaurant from a node inside to the outline of the building are true alps (Almhütten) that serve food in addition to tending livestock, while only the Höttinger offers accommodation. This is very literal and selective reading of the definition, to only ask, are there beds. E.g. it must be remote too, I read there, no road, etc.
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Comment from rohieb
According to https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism=alpine%20hut?uselang=en:
"An alpine hut is a remote building located in the mountains intended to provide board and lodging. […] Required properties:
• Remote building found in mountains (not only the Alps) [obviously the case here]
• The access is usually restricted to foot, mountain bike or ski. [also given here]
• You will find food, shelter and sleeping places"As for the last part, I was planning a possible multi-day hiking tour, and tried to find out which of these huts were offering accomodation. For the ones that I changed in https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/126422988, I didn't find anything in that regard mentioned on their homepage or on the karwendel.de list (which listed them explicitely as "only restaurant, no accomodation"). The only exception was Höttinger Alm, which was listed on karwendel.de as "offers accomodation", but had a note on their homepage that they are not offering accomodation in 2022, which I read as an exception due to Covid, and that they were normally offering accomodation. So I left the tourism=alpine_hut in place, as well as the amenity=restaurant.
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Comment from rohieb
I don't mind the amenity=restaurant in addition to alpine_hut, as long as you can just go there and get served without having to book a bed.
What you meant by "Schutzhütte" is probably covered by https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism%3Dwilderness_hut ?
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Comment from Hungerburg
I meant https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schutzh%C3%BCtte#%C3%96sterreich
Höttinger Alm is not remote ;) The tenant will leave this year, we will see what the next one offers.
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Comment from rohieb
Okay. However that legal definition doesn't say anything about accomodation.
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