Changeset: 125998603
Elimino relación Cordillera de los Andes, no es precisa
Closed by guillemmal
Tags
created_by | JOSM/1.5 (18543 es) |
---|---|
source | knowledge |
Discussion
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Comment from mariotomo
hi. are you sure about this action?
looks weird, deleting a major mountain range relation, moreover doing so in a changeset where you're also doing other quite unrelated edits. -
Comment from guillemmal
Hello!
I am from the Argentine community, the change was agreed upon with the Chilean community at the time and had already been eliminated. There were lines without content, what I did was delete that.
This are with other unrelated editions because I was just editing bus relations and got the error when loading in JOSM. The relationship was removed since Cordillera de los Andes is too complex and there is nothing specific defined regarding the mountain range. -
Comment from mariotomo
hi, sounds good, sorry to have bothered you. :+1:
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Comment from guillemmal
No problem! Have a nice day!
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Comment from Aleksandar Matejevic
I would ask you to reconsider not to delete this relationship but to correct it according to local knowledge, so that in the end you get the most accurate possible boundary. By the community's assertion that the relation is incorrect, I get the impression that you actually know where the border is, if the problem was the bus route, you could have just moved the relation border to an adequate place instead of deleting it. This is why we don't have the Andes on the map and they are the largest mountain range in the world?
I think deletion should be the last option. As I created the relation, you could contact me first to see if we could fix this, not just delete the whole relation.
Imagine if someone came along and deleted all your map entries that they don't like or don't think are accurate enough? -
Comment from SomeoneElse
Hello, Andy from OSM's Data Working Group here.
> I am from the Argentine community, the change was agreed upon with the Chilean community at the time and had already been eliminated.
Would it be possible to link to where those conversations happened?
> There were lines without content, what I did was delete that.
Maybe it's just a mistranslation, but https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/13723952/history definitely did have content.
It's always difficult to represent very large features like this with detailed relations, ways, and nodes - perhaps a simpler "mountain range line" would have been better?
However, deleting it with a terse "no es precisa" without a link to other discussion seems a bit rude.
Best Regards,
Andy -
Comment from SomeoneElse
(traducción automática)
Hola, Andy del Grupo de Trabajo de Datos de OSM aquí.> Soy de la comunidad argentina, el cambio se acordó con la comunidad chilena en su momento y ya lo habían eliminado.
¿Sería posible enlazar donde sucedieron esas conversaciones?
> Había líneas sin contenido, lo que hice fue borrar eso.
Tal vez sea solo un error de traducción, pero https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/13723952/history definitivamente tenía contenido.
Siempre es difícil representar características muy grandes como esta con relaciones, formas y nodos detallados; ¿tal vez hubiera sido mejor una "línea de cordillera" más simple?
Sin embargo, eliminarlo con un escueto "no es precisa" sin un enlace a otra discusión parece un poco grosero.
Saludos,
Andy -
Comment from guillemmal
Hola! La relación solo estaba formada por dos líneas, una del lado este y otra del lado oeste. Es demasiada impresición para tremenda longitud. Vivo en una ciudad montañosa y sin embargo lo que marcaba en Argentina no pertenecía a la cordillera sino a cordones montañosos precordilleranos. Del lado chileno igual, en muchos casos pasaba por ciudadades que no son cordillera como tal. Considero que estaría bueno que exista la relación pero bien hecha, dos líneas para toda la relación no sirve.
También hay que seguir ciertos lineamientos a la hora de armar la relación, si el segmento ya existe tiene que usarse y esta relación no lo hacía, por eso decidí borrarla.
Saludos -
Comment from SomeoneElse
A bit more info - https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1lTh is what was deleted. I'm surprised that there doesn't appear to be a long, linear "natural=mountain_range" feature for the "Cordillera de los Andes", but there do not seem to be any: https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1lTi .
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Comment from SomeoneElse
Un poco más de información: https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1lTh es lo que se eliminó. Me sorprende que no parezca haber una característica larga y lineal "natural=mountain_range" para la "Cordillera de los Andes", pero no parece haber ninguna: https://overpass-turbo.eu/ s/1lTi.
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Comment from guillemmal
Considero que debe existir la relación, pero así como estaba planteada no le sirve a nadie. Debería mapearse en función del conocimiento de las comunidades locales, puedo aportar mi conocimiento locar desde Argentina, contactar a la comunidad chilena y plantear una wiki con porcentaje de avance por país, porque realmente es un tema demasiado complejo al menos en Argentina y Chile.
Se puede tomar como Cordillera de los Andes incluso hasta las Islas Malvinas ya que geólogos explican que en el océano la misma se sumerge y resurge en Malvinas por ejemplo.
Son muchos temas a considerar -
Comment from Aleksandar Matejevic
I agree that a relation should be created with the existing geometries, but this was not done because there is no clearly defined border and it is easier to correct two lines than to correct the members of the relation, so for now, it is left to only correct the geometries. I received comments for Venezuela and Colombia, and also for Lima, and I corrected those parts, so I expected the same reaction from other communities. Honestly, I really appreciate local knowledge, but I find it unacceptable that OSM has, say, the Alps but we don't have the Andes which are greater and more massive. I'm more for cooperation first to define some geometry that is "final" and then I will easily replace part by part with existing geometries that are already on OSM
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Comment from guillemmal
Bueno, está la geometría que pasaron en Overpass, si puedes volvé a subirla y yo aviso a las comunidades de Argentina y Chile que la idea es mejorarla con el tiempo, así nadie comete algún error como el mío de borrarla.
Me comprometo a que las comunidades queden avisadas -
Comment from Aleksandar Matejevic
Thanks guillemmal, I really appreciate this solution, looking forward to improve the geometry and relation members in the future.
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Comment from SomeoneElse
Regardless of whether the "Andes" region should exist or not I'd have thought a "natural=mountain_range" feature is probably better at describing what it is, as a linear feature as noted at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural%3Dmountain_range .
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Comment from Aleksandar Matejevic
Hi SomeoneElse,
I agree that the OSM wiki states that this tag should not be used on polygons or relations, but this range is so huge, so it covers a lot of mountain peaks and it would be impossible to map it, it would still be a bad geometry, and also, other big mountain ranges are already mapped with polygon relations, so this is why this approach is taken. -
Comment from SomeoneElse
The point of a natural=mountain_range tag is that it's a rough idea of the location only - precisely because there is no exact extent! There is no area that you can draw with everything inside "part of the Andes" and everything outside "not part of the Andes".
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Comment from guillemmal
Estoy de acuerdo con utilizar el tag natural=mountain_range!
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Comment from Aleksandar Matejevic
I will then create a line instead of this relation if this is OK with the communities.
Ways (1-20 of 35)
- 1
- 2
- Hermógenes Ruiz (1093260786), v1
- José Aguilera (1093260787), v1
- Ruta Provincial 53 (1093260788), v1
- Las Moras (183461090), v20
- Hermógenes Ruiz (200675190), v23
- José Aguilera (220963958), v15
- Hermógenes Ruiz (376173390), v22
- Rawson (437107826), v6
- Córdoba (437107829), v6
- Córdoba (441865860), v3
- Vidart (447613638), v13
- Barrio Higueritas II (459623401), v10
- 459629291, v7
- Barrio Dique de Ullum II (459875004), v13
- Villa Aurora (459875005), v8
- Villa Aurora (472093392), v10
- Barrio Agua y Energía (473866105), v12
- Villa El Lago (477744366), v6
- Ruta Provincial 53 (627932756), v11
- Avenida Argentina (627932757), v3
Relations (1-20 of 23)
- 1
- 2
- RP89 (12182533), v4
- RP60 (12191815), v14
- RP53 (12192091), v4
- Línea 160: Hospital Rawson → Barrio Agapito Gil (12239334), v34
- Línea 160: Barrio Agapito Gil → Hospital Rawson (12239335), v34
- Línea 162: Av. Libertador y Av. Alem → Dique Punta Negra (12253526), v17
- Línea 162: Dique Punta Negra → Avenida Libertador y Avenida Alem (12253527), v21
- Línea 140: Terminal → Cementerio de Zonda (12253647), v27
- Línea 140: Cementerio de Zonda → Terminal (12253648), v19
- Línea 141: Terminal → Villa Tacú (12253680), v24
- Línea 141: Villa Tacú → Terminal (12253681), v22
- Línea 142: Terminal → Museo Enzo Mancini (12253949), v13
- Línea 142: Museo Enzo Mancini → Terminal (12253950), v15
- Línea 142: Terminal → Cerro Blanco (12253952), v14
- Línea 142: Cerro Blanco → Terminal (12253953), v17
- Línea 161: Diferimientos → Hospital Rawson (12253968), v25
- Línea 161: Hospital Rawson → Diferimientos (12253969), v24
- Línea 161 (12276707), v3
- Línea 142: Terminal → por Hospital Julieta Lanteri → Museo Enzo Mancini (14558520), v2
- Línea 142: Museo Enzo Mancini → por Hospital Julieta Lanteri → Terminal (14558521), v2
- Córdoba y Gallardo (10012380674), v1
- Córdoba y Gallardo (10012380675), v1
- Libertad y Córdoba (10012380676), v1
9457722403, v29457722404, v29457722405, v29457722406, v29457722407, v29457722408, v29457722409, v29457722410, v29457722411, v29457722412, v29457722413, v29457722414, v29457722415, v29457722416, v29457731317, v29457731318, v29457731319, v2
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