Changeset: 112038425
realign FDR
Closed by snake21
Tags
changesets_count | 390 |
---|---|
created_by | iD 2.20.1 |
host | https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit |
imagery_used | Bing aerial imagery |
locale | en |
Discussion
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Comment from jmapb
Hi SH17, I've noticed you're working on road alignment in NYC.
As a longtime NYC mapper, I'd encourage you to align to the "NYS Orthos Online" imagery instead of Bing's. NYS Orthos is consistently the best aligned across the city, while Bing's alignment drifts.
The NYS Orthos imagery is from last autumn so it's also the most recent at the moment, though Bing is a close second in most parts of the city.
Thanks, J
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Comment from snake21
Thanks, I’ll definitely do that going forward!
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Comment from MxxCon
This is not always the case and it must always be evaluated in each individual area.
In a number of chasesets I've seen SH17 blindly make edits which made the map LESS accurate because nys orthos is outdated compared to other imagery, and SH17's edits to road geometry don't represent the real world layout.
Furthermore, if 4 different satellite images pixel-match in alignment with each other but not nys orthos, nys orthos is misaligned.
I've requested SH17 to doublecheck other imagery before "realigning" roads, but they are ignoring my requests. If this continues I'll either mass-revert their edits or forward it to DWG. -
Comment from snake21
I'm sorry I didn't see your earlier messages until, but I do think calling my contributions "vandalism" is a bit of a stretch. I will certainly keep your feedback in mind when making future edits.
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Comment from jmapb
Mea culpa, it appears that the current NYS Orthos imagery is *not* from last autumn, it's from autumn 2018. This was a clerical error on my part and I apologize for the confusion and any subsequent damage to the map. Bing has been continuing to add fresh imagery and is now more up to date (2020) in most places.
But I'm still vouching for the alignment of NYS Orthos. I've done extensive comparison of the various imagery providers around here to my own GPS surveys, Strava, and the road traces we used to have from Juno.
(The claim that "4 different satellite images pixel-match in alignment with each other" doesn't jibe with my observation. At stock alignment, the only two current imagery layers that match in this way are "Esri World Imagery" and" Esri World Imagery (Clarity) Beta", and because they're both from the same provider I don't give that any additional weight.)
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Comment from MxxCon
Compare imagery alignment around this exit that SH17 "realigned" https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/448112308
Bing, both ERSI and Mapbox all match, while nys orthos is off.Luckily in NYC from what I've seen, all imagery is pretty close and accurately aligned, and the differences between them are within your mouse movement's margin of error. Short of lane reconfiguration, I'm not sure if there's anything that need such extensive "realignment".
(I'm not talking about Maxar, that thing is completely off).
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Comment from jmapb
It's worth noting that *all* of these imagery layers have alignments variations at different locations, and sometimes also at different zoom levels. (Not to mention changes over time, of course, when photography is updated.)
The example you've given in Staten Island certainly shows Mapbox and Bing close, ESRI a little less so. In my experience Mapbox is the least-consistently aligned layer in NYC, jumping around considerably across the city.
Back in this changeset (lower Manhattan), there are visible differences in alignment in all 3: https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmTUXnh5eFgwXEv8sNEuNRaVF7YMZff2nVJxFCzkYhsxfp?filename=layerloop.gif
The NYS Orthos layer is a little south of all of these, indeed the outlier. That doesn't mean it's wrong, but returning to my source data I can't actually swear that it's better than the others, at least not here. My conclusion that it was best-aligned was based on older comparisons, and the current observations sew enough doubt that I'll eschew further evangelization on NYS Orthos' behalf. (OTOH NYC's orthos *were* in fact updated in 2020, so I'm not entirely delusional: https://gis.ny.gov/gateway/orthoprogram/lot20/index.html )
I haven't done enough analysis to have an opinion regarding the quality of, or need for, SH17's alignment changes. In general I agree that there's not a particularly pressing need for much road realignment in the city, except as required due to physical changes on the ground.
Ways (1-20 of 32)
- 1
- 2
- FDR Drive (5671887), v19
- 32936245, v19
- 32936385, v17
- FDR Drive (32936741), v14
- FDR Drive (32937063), v17
- 32938060, v19
- FDR Drive (32939209), v11
- FDR Drive (32939512), v14
- 46201645, v9
- FDR Drive (46201646), v11
- Waterside Plaza (46201651), v12
- FDR Drive (46201653), v7
- Avenue C (46211851), v20
- Waterside Plaza (47796678), v14
- East 37th Street (134484061), v6
- East 30th Street (226040994), v14
- Avenue C (438381568), v7
- Waterside Plaza (441167004), v3
- Waterside Plaza (499334655), v2
- Waterside Plaza (499334656), v4
Nodes (1-20 of 197)
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