OpenStreetMap

SimonPoole has commented on the following diary entries

Post When Comment
What comes first, Map or Database? Should we tell newbies the truth? 6 months ago

@BushmanK ehhh I was actually agreeing with you, pls go back and re-read my comment. The only thing I was pointing out is that the discussion is not in any way new. For example the reoccuring theme of if we should actually show a map on openstreetmap.org at all, or if something more like openstreetmap.de would be better.

10.000 broken Turn_Restriction in the OSM Planet File 6 months ago

Funneling the information in to maproulette would probably make more sense (or in to osmose)

What comes first, Map or Database? Should we tell newbies the truth? 6 months ago

You've touched on a subject that is rather controversial and I've pointed out many times that there is no point on jumping on newbies, sometimes not even "new", screaming it's a database when we don't actually say that upfront or even anywhere hidden. The text on the wiki you are referring to goes back to at least http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=About_OpenStreetMap&oldid=1461 so this has been a problem that has been with the project since the beginning.

We have a similar "we a can't tell newbies the truth" situation with relations (which are in reality a simple concept).

Improving the OSM map - why don't we? [12] 6 months ago

Actually ... the concept of attaching a source tag (except in extraordinary) circumstances to an object has been defunct since the introductions of changesets,, 5 years or so ago and it has been not considered good practice for multiple years.

Portable OSM 6 months ago

I wasn't suggesting that JOSM would fit your needs, just that the basic principle is not new, and that there is a large body of experience with the issues. Matter of fact every non-broken OSM editor has to handle the problems with syncing edits to the central API and dealing with conflicts to some extent. Naturally there is some value in being able to stage edits in some fashion to avoid network problems and similar, none of the current editors really deals gracefully with that, but that is a long long way from requiring a full OSM stack replacement.

Portable OSM 6 months ago

The main issue I see is that this is being developed in its own sub-culture without any interaction with major parts of the OSM dev community. More specific OSM has had distributed editing and syncing with the central API for ages, for example with JOSM (not to mention any other editor that support offline storage and conflict resolution ie Vespucci).

However anybody who has edited over longer periods with JOSM without syncing knows that the end result can be very very messy, and the project as outlined has the potential to produce conflicts in abundance. It is unclear how the AMR is proposing to avoid this. No go Zones? Zap any non-AMR edits? ????

Non-searchable = Non-existent 6 months ago

google used to return individual OSM objects quite prominently, they seem to have stopped doing that. Can't blame them, they -are- a competitor and why should they give us preferential treatment.

There has been some work on providing OSM data in a more search engine friendly way (well actually in a more search result friendly way) however that hasn't been completed yet and in any case it is completly unclear if that would help with the competitive issue.

Place Names: Old and New 7 months ago

Typically old names would be tagged as old_name (:-)), now that doesn't help except if somebody produces a map that displays both but that isn't really a major undertaking.

Missing Dam in Germany 7 months ago

The actual body of water has been mapped since 7 years. I suspect we didn't even have a tagging for the dam itself at that point in time.

When we refer to Germany as being complete this refers mainly to the road network and the larger cities, outside of those areas there are still lots of details to be mapped, not to mention things like house numbers (we should be crossing the 50% mark in Germany very very soon).

Simon

How large are our national contributor communities and how are they developing? 7 months ago

@Dacor I'm not quite sure where google is supposed to enter the picture. Even if the newbie in question doesn't get a welcome mail from the community (which a lot do), it is just a question of clicking on the help tab above to get links to everything relevant.. And further the welcome page every mapper sees contains a link to the same place https://www.openstreetmap.org/welcome

Using IRC (the web interface does not require any software to be installed), the mailing list and the forums does not entail creating a further account and while not super user friendly isn't quite as unfriendly as you imply.

Naturally more things could be done, and I think we are all waiting with baited breath for somebody to finish off the groups functionality for the website which would make some community things substantially easier.

How large are our national contributor communities and how are they developing? 7 months ago

@51114u9 South, I'm aware that this is controversial, but probably less than including it in NA. See the caveats.

How large are our national contributor communities and how are they developing? 7 months ago

@RobJN I'm on the record as saying this before: it is reasonably easy to cause spikes in our growth by media coverage (we know that because it is easy to track cause and effect in such cases), changing the long term trends seems to be very difficult. There are just are handful, or even less, events that have affected that, the introduction of Potlatch, the licence change, iD. I could speculate on why that is, but the truth is that we don't actually know what keeps our growth going (my take on it is that it is actually word of mouth but thats unproven).

The good thing to take away from the country numbers is that they show that even in the countries we consider developed in an OSM sense growth rates have flaten out but growth is continuing, in other words there is no reason to believe that you can't reach > 1 mapper per 1000 in the UK too.

How large are our national contributor communities and how are they developing? 7 months ago

@imagico theoretically yes, however living as I do in a country that is a reasonably popular tourist destination there has been no indication that this is a significant effect over the last two years (where we have looked at every single new mapper).

The other problem is that this effect would only be detectable at all if the mapper in question actually continued to map at home over a significant period of time, which as we know most don't. (there were only 33'197 contributors with more than 100 changesets as of this September).

Mapping my hometown Rajahmundry 8 months ago

@Jothirnadh (welcome to OSM) lots of us have been through the misaligned imagery valley of grief :-) Which includes major parts of Europe just a couple of years back.

The main problem seems to be that there is no reference information right now to adjust the imagery.

There are essentially not so many ways to generate/get such information:

  • make precision measurements with a GPS device of well defined features that have good visibility on the imagery (for example a corner of a 1 to 2 storey building on which you can access the roof)

  • generate (multiple) GPS tracks over crossings and turn offs (you will need multiple tracks on both sides of the road to get resonable information)

  • get official reference point information from the governement or similar (typically this is not so helpful because the points themselves tend not to be visible on imagery)

Simon

Advancing Columbus 8 months ago

@union4 Naturally if it is just a misunderstanding and you don't intend to import but want to trace the outlines, sorry. However you should understand that we have suffered and continue to suffer from hit and run imports in the US that as a tendency tend to be badly executed on top of that.

Advancing Columbus 8 months ago

Have you read http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines ?

Quantifying HOT participation inequality: it's complicated. 8 months ago

The original question was

Is the workload more evenly spread throughout the community when it comes to Missing Maps tasks as opposed to HOT tasks?

I'm of the opinion that "workload" cannot be interpreted different than actual contributions to producing a usable map. Given that, you do not answer the question. You do however, again, try to spin things so that missing maps looks better than it is.

Motivationslos 8 months ago

Das schöne an OSM ist, dass man ja viele verschiedene Sachen mappen kann. Gebäudemappen geht eigentlich allen auf den Geist mit der Zeit, mach einfach nach Bedarf (zum Beispiel wenn du Adressen hast zum Ergänzen).

Halfway to vespucci 0.9.7 8 months ago

Thanks mvexel.

Wrt MapRoulette the Notes/Osmose code was written with an eye to including further services with similar workflow, from that pov adding MapRoulette wouldn't be an issue. However you would need a public API in some form (likely returning all tasks from all challenges in a bounding box and a call to update the state of a task).

Audio Mapping first steps 8 months ago

Hmm, audio mapping was my preferred method of gathering data more than 5 years back when I started with OSM. It is bearable for larger features (name of the road you are currently on) and quite enviroments (non-moving or enclosed) but doesn't really work due to:

  • positional errors (I stll now and then run in to stuff that I ampped back then which is "one-off")
  • spelling (anything with a name is dicey)