https://openstreetmap.org/copyright | https://openstreetmap.org |
Copyright OpenStreetMap and contributors, under an open license |
https://openstreetmap.org/copyright | https://openstreetmap.org |
Copyright OpenStreetMap and contributors, under an open license |
Downgraded how? I don't see any changes in the history that would suggest that it has been?
There is/was a note on the way that says that this was the B662 but that it isn't now. As above, I couldn't see any evidence that points to this, so think that this should be secondary with ref=B662 - unless the original person that wrote the note has any evidence to the contrary...?
I see. The link you gave is to Cambs, but this is (now?) in Northants. The awkward thing is they don't keep a PDF 'list of streets' the way Cambs does; instead it's kept on their interactive mapping site. That presumably means it's got entangled in OS copyright, and so can't be used. Do you know for sure?
http://maps.northamptonshire.gov.uk/#x=505635,y=280938,zoom=4,base=NCC,layers=Country_Parks|highway_register|,search=text:clopton,fade=false,mX=0,mY=0
Oh I see - it's also in Cambs, on their list of streets. When I check the latest list, and search for Old Weston (the enclosing parish), I get
'Clopton Road (B660) ~280m'
'Clopton Road 2011.74m'.
I can't see a B662. I also can't make the length match up with the measured distance on the OSM version of the road: I get 2.48km on Graphhopper: https://graphhopper.com/maps/?point=52.39217%2C-0.385023&point=52.40366%2C-0.416062&locale=en-GB&elevation=true&profile=car&use_miles=false&selected_detail=Elevation&layer=Omniscale
Assuming the length starts at the jcn with the B660, 2011.74m would take us as far as Clopton Road's jcn with Cockbrook Lane (give or take 50m): https://graphhopper.com/maps/?point=52.39217%2C-0.385023&point=52.401802%2C-0.410127&locale=en-GB&elevation=true&profile=car&use_miles=false&selected_detail=Elevation&layer=Omniscale
Conceivably Northants maintains the more westerly section since the road jcn is a clearer boundary??
I don't know if this helps us any (and sorry for thinking aloud on the note...).
Yes, so you can see the boundary on OSM, between Cambridgeshire, who maintain the eastern section, and North Northamptonshire unitary, who maintain the western section. It looks like the boundary runs along the road for a little bit as well. I'm not sure of the copyright situation regarding the lists of streets for OSM purposes. It's clear that OS mapping has this down as the B662 and a Class II road, as does Google. There's lots of references on the internet to it being the B662 and none to reference a downgrade to Class III status. I should just take a drive over there to see what the signs say, but it's a bit far and I've not had time.
I drive that way fairly regularly so will (try and remember to!) have a look.
I cycled this route (the Northamptonshire piece) this morning and looked specifically at the signs. The old sign post at the junction in Clopton for the Thurning road still points to the B662 in both directions, as does the even older signpost at the Wigsthorpe road junction. But there is no mention of B662 at the major roundabout with the A605 which has relatively newer signs. This indicates to me that Northants have also declassified the road, but have not had the funding (or inclination) to replace the signs for the minor road junctions yet.
The other point is that not every classified road is necessarily signed at either end - particularly roads where a number might increase rat-running - so it could be a conscious decision (or just an error) that the signs at the ends don't include the number, but some along the route do...
The issue here is that the road is signed as classified, but on the statutory lists it is shown as not classified.
Did people on this thread see the thread on talk-gb? Any consensus on how to tag?
Personally I like the ref:signedas (or whatever exactly the suggestion was) as 'tag what you see' . Probably add a note to say that officially it's no longer classified
No, that's not the issue - The Northamptonshire site doesn't display classifications, although the underlying OS map does show that it is numbered the B662. The Cambridgeshire site does show this as being Class II (B) road. There are some signs along the route indicating the classification. However, the terminal road signs do not contain a number. I can't find any documentation online to indicate that it was ever downgraded from Class II to Class III - therefore, on balance of probabilities, I'd say it's still the B662 with the number removed from the terminal signs to deter through traffic, and that the person who downgraded it originally was wrong.
Oh, I didn't know the Cambs site has info to say it's classified: based on that comment I've just worked out how to make their map give that info (https://www.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/residents/travel-roads-and-parking/roads-and-pathways/highway-records).
When I look at their list of streets (https://www.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/asset-library/list-of-streets-august-2021.PDF), only the section here https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/28222972 is classified, as B660, and a Ctrl-F for B662 returns no hits.
It seems the list does give a ref for every classified road, so arguably the absence of the ref there means this stretch is not classified - in your view does that corroborate the de-classification theory, or not?
I don't think the road list contains classifications against sections exhaustively, although I could be wrong. However, on the map view, if you click on the road at "Clopton Road, Brington", it states that it is a B Class Road, which would imply that it's still the B662, as per OS mapping.
Thanks. I've emailed Cambs CC so let's see if that settles it! Though fully prepared for an unhelpfully generic response.
Email says exactly what you've said: the list of streets doesn't necessarily show the road number (in fact they were stronger: it should not show any road numbers at all) and the map with the nameless B classification is correct. They confirm it is the B662.
Now ref=662.
Map updated. The question now is, does B662 extend along High Street Old Weston (continuing its W-E trajectory), after the brief stretch of B660 (where that classification doglegs W-E from N-S)?