Changeset: 147106612
changing access to Permissive for Motor vehicles only. With Toll, as per instructions for ferry terminals.
Closed by Hawaiianblue
Tags
changesets_count | 160 |
---|---|
created_by | iD 2.27.3 |
host | https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit |
imagery_used | Bing Maps Aerial |
locale | en-GB |
Discussion
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Comment from vng_me
I already wrote you in other comments. Your changes are controversial. Especially access=no. Please, talk to the local UK community first.
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Comment from vng_me
1. access=no may technically be used to include eg foot=no , but semantically it's not nice for showing something that doesn't apply as a whole to the general public. If needed, using foot= or motor_vehicle= alone is better.
2. motor_vehcle=permissive is a very common possible mistake . It doesn't mean by "permission" , "permit" , or whatever else. It has a very specific meaning. If everyone can pay to get in, it is considered =yes . -
Comment from Hawaiianblue
It's not "yes" according the user manual. Only motor vehicles are allowed access. You can't walk, cycle or ride a horse into the site. According the the User manual, Ferry terminals (of which Eurotunnel is) should be set to "permissive" and toll=yes. Permissive does not mean 'by permission' it means anyone is allowed in (after paying the toll) but the site owner can remove their permission at any point. It's not controversial, it's just accurate. Otherwise there wouldn't be the option for 'Permissive'.
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Comment from trigpoint
Hi
What is the User Manual of which you speak?In OSM we have a wiki, but that is intended to document how we map, not dictate how we should map.
That tagging you are changing has been in place for a very long time, so is probably not broken.
Cheers Phil
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Comment from vng_me
All the Eurotunnel service roads are already mapped as foot=no, bicycle=no, horse=no, etc. access=no is strange.
What value do your changes give?
I ask on osm-gb community, they are also agree that =permissive is odd here.
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Comment from Hawaiianblue
Wiki or what ever you want to call it, is the defacto user manual for editing OSM. Legally the access is permissive. That's just a fact. And a map should represent facts, not personal interpretations of what it should be.
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Comment from Hawaiianblue
Access to "All=no" because there is only access for motor vehicles, which is set to Permissive.
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Comment from Hawaiianblue
I'm unsubscribing from the conversation now. Because the access is by law and any other sensible definition permissive.
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Comment from SK53
Please do not unsubscribe from this conversation.
If you fail to discuss this all these edits may be reverted. Consider that OSM is nearly 20 years old, and infrastructure like the Channel Tunnel will have received attention over many years to make sure it is compatible with various routing services. It is therefore unlikely that existing tagging was very far wrong.
I'm concerned that your changes will break numerous downstream applications which rely on OSM data for routing. This is why such changes need to be discussed.
Jerry aka SK53
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Comment from trigpoint
The problem we now have is that routing is seriously broken and is now using a service entrance, rather than the actual check in.
Whilst motor_vehicle=permissive may be true, not tagging everything inside that area as permissive is bound to cause problems, also not leaving the primary route as easy as possible for routers is bound to cause problems.
The wiki is intended to document mapping practices and not dictate. As SK53 says, OSM is 20 years old. Have we been doing it wrong for all that time? I don't think so.
These changes need to be reverted so that we can get back to a working point in time.
Phil
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Comment from vng_me
What are the next steps here?
And here? https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/147054398
Ways (1-20 of 33)
- 1
- 2
- 22576262, v14
- Over Bridge 1 (22576290), v33
- 22576698, v20
- Over Bridge 2 (22581774), v29
- Egress Road (22582082), v20
- Over Bridge 4 (22582386), v19
- 22586265, v20
- 108322140, v9
- 108322168, v9
- 108322204, v10
- 108323073, v10
- 108323078, v7
- 108323080, v6
- 108323081, v6
- 126572836, v11
- 132068883, v8
- 148428233, v9
- Over Bridge 3 (220892321), v18
- Over Bridge 4 (220892322), v14
- 220892324, v11
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