Changeset: 119240753
Pfad auf Rad- und Fußweg geändert
Closed by Lxfly
Tags
changesets_count | 148 |
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created_by | iD 2.20.4 |
host | https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit |
imagery_used | Latest available ortho geoportail.lu |
locale | de |
source | survey |
Discussion
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Comment from SHARCRASH
Hi! Why did you change the highway from track to cycleway?
I've plotted in purpose all entrances to fields to demonstrate OSM contributors that the way is also used by agricultural vehicles. Therefore it is more relevant to have it as a track than a cycleway since a track is more of a multi purpose way than a cycleway which is rather dedicated to cyclists, sometimes shared with pedestrians (then some prefer to tag the highway as path, also such way has great chances to be narrower). A bicycle can use a track but a tractor cannot use a cycleway/footway/path. The tag you've favored misleads people who would think they are safe on the way. If you haven't heard of this accident on the following link, it's a great example that we shouldn't mislead users of the map to think that the way is only for cyclists and therefore keep being cautious and accept sharing the way. https://today.rtl.lu/news/luxembourg/a/1900714.html
I've noticed that you've done this on other locations. Unfortunately, we will certainly need to revert those edits.
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Comment from SHARCRASH
If you need an even more obvious example is when using highway=unclassified, implicitly it is a way for broader types of vehicles. Even though cyclists are allowed to use such way, we won't certainly tag it as a cycleway.
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Comment from Lxfly
Hi, do not agree. I don't know what part you exactly mean, but on this area the cycleway PC15 is an official cycleway shared with pedestrians and usable by agricultural vehicles and land owners.
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Comment from Lxfly
You have this situation also near Essingen, Colmar-Berg, Schieren, Lorentzweiler .......
For me, what is missing in most properties is the indication that these specific parts are usable by motor vehicles. -
Comment from SHARCRASH
That's exactly what I've said: the way is shared between agricultural vehicles, emergency vehicles, cyclists, pedestrians and sometimes even horse riders. For example this one https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/26380730
I know it's part of the official cycling network but there are also parts of that network that go on roads but we are most certainly not going to tag them as cycleways just because of your argument "it is part of the cycling network". I think you can agree with this.So, since it is shared, we need to find the most relevant tag. In this case it is highway=track since it is not allowed to general traffic but allowed for agricultural, etc.
Also OSM's Wikipedia clearly states that it should not be used when "cycling infrastructure is an inherent part of a road" and when "Off-road and outdoor: Outside of cities and dense populated areas most cycling routes are mapped using highway=track when the way is also used by large motorized vehicles (agricultural, forestry, emergency vehicles...) or highway=path when not intended for motorized vehicles (rather pedestrians, horses...).
After all this, if you still disagree that such shared ways should be tagged as "track", can you explain me how other users such as emergency vehicles will be able to know that such way is usable for them in real in case of an emergency for a person who had an accident?
If the way would be blocked with unmovable barriers such as blocks, fixed bollards or cycle barriers, it clearly is restricted to other vehicles.
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Comment from SHARCRASH
For your last comment, isn't it obvious that the farmers need access to their fields?! Hence why i've plotted the entrances to the fields to show other contributors that these ways are also used for accessing them.
Therefore it's a matter of relevance: a track can still be accessed to bicycles, in contrary cycleways are more specific, they cannot be accessed by tractors, horses, etc.
In terms of indication there is always the C3 sign with exceptions. Here is another proof. The fact that you changed it in cycleway despite the signs clearly demonstrates you made the changes without taking care of its access restrictions. https://goo.gl/maps/HUqZiK5KeHUtcKgi9
I've initiated a discussion with the community about your changes...
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Comment from SHARCRASH
By the way, myself i'm also a cyclist. I'm not trying to misinform people, rather i want everything accurate. In contrary you've tagged to render the ways as cycleways whereas they are also used to access fields.
If you want to see the entire cycling network i suggest you to switch to another map CyclOSM is good for that. Please in the future avoid misleading people. Thanks for your comprehension!
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