Changeset: 11603397
yli voi ajaa
Closed by ij_
Tags
created_by | JOSM/1.5 (5074 SVN fi) |
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Discussion
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Comment from GerdP
please review:
highway=mini_roundabout on a way looks wrong.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/163695147
This seems to double the correct ways with
junction=roundabout -
Comment from ij_
Given that one can ride over the whole center area of that particular roundabout, it qualifies as "mini"_roundabout according to the definition that was given for the minis while I did that change (I don't know what's the current definition as they unfortunately occassionally change stuff behind mappers/tagging@ list back).
The obvious reason for all this is the needs of the nearby harbour. I think it's just a very rare exception and correct as is (I also understand why it looks strange to you :-)). And thanks for asking first(!) rather than correcting without better information.
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Comment from ij_
I checked it from the wiki and it seems that the current definition is still the same. In addition, I think that highway=mini_roundabout wikipage should not ban this tag for areas like it currently does as there's clear use case for drawing the real circle using ways for smaller vehicles while also mapping it as mini (even the default rendering seems to support this for areas :-), IIRC it didn't back when I added that area).
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Comment from GerdP
okay, I see. The wiki recommends to connect the ways in a single point when highway=mini_roundabout is used, I think that makes sense, as large vehicles will
use drive like that.
Don't know if that was discussed in detail. -
Comment from ij_
True, however, most of the vehicles in here are smaller than those large ones. Even the leading part of the heavy trucks would likely follow the roundabout circle that has larger diameter than usual residential roundabout anyway. The middle shortcut through the very center is needed only for special permit vehicles that are larger than normally allowed dimensions, I think (I was lucky enough to seen some catamaran and trimaran special transports to use this route once and they had to also remove traffic sign from the middle too in-order to make the turn from South to East successfully).
For the small vehicles it's much more useful to indicate it as a real roundabout and they certainly don't want to cross the center due to the surface material.
I think that there's no good enough reasons to justify the wiki guidance given that the roundabout+mini area approach I used here should convey enough information to handle both cases (and one could even autogenerate reasonably good single point approximation out of this by connecting the ways to the calculated centerpoint). -
Comment from ij_
The sign I'm talking about is this one:
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Comment from GerdP
hmm, I wonder why we have these weird rules (in the wiki)
Thinking about it again it would be better to tag all of them as junction=roundabout and use a 2nd tag to express that it is possible to drive across the center. -
Comment from ij_
Indeed.
If there's something in the wiki that doesn't make sense or is too restrictive, it either means that nobody thought about it, no body wrote their useful thoughts to wiki, or that some (rather few really) opposed sensible idea so persistently that the proposer just gave up (unfortunately the last one is far too common too).
"Mini" isn't particularly explicit on the meaning either like such 2nd tag would be.
I suspect this whole mini thing might be very contextual to some places (perhaps they're even called mini roundabouts in the natural language there) where the roundabout is just a small painting or something (here in Finland paint is not very useful during winter :-)). -
Comment from GerdP
I agree in all points, I think I'll post a link to this discussion in the tagging list asking for
comments. OK? -
Comment from ij_
Feel free to, although I wouldn't expect some to give up on highway=mini_roundabout very easily (or even after some pushing ;-)).
You might be able to get 2nd tag approved though and just specify that it's 2nd_explicit_tag=yes by default for the highway=mini_roundabout which would already help this case somewhat.
Ways (1)
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