OpenStreetMap

The Ukrainian community is concerned about the possible negative impact on the project as a whole, the emergence of lawsuits from users of data and the subsequent decline of the project, and therefore restores the borders of Ukraine to the internationally recognized status. The recent decision of DWG ( https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Group_Minutes/DWG_2018-11-14_Crimea ) neglects the wide recognition of Crimea as an integral part of Ukraine expressed by numerous governments and international organizations (in particular, UN General Assembly Resolution 68/262 http://www.un.org/en/ga/68/resolutions.shtml / https://undocs.org/en/A/RES/68/262 ). DWG actions directed to cut off Crimea from the borders of Ukraine are considered to be inadequate to the interests of the project and are not recognized by law. Any blockages (bans) aimed against members who restored the border of Ukraine to the widely internationally recognized status will be seen as unjustified pressure on the entire community and usurpation of power in the OSM.

P.S. “changing names or country information would require consensus from both the Ukrainian and Russian communities. It is unlikely that any such edit proposals will be able to achieve this.” (с) DWG //

Moreover, according to clause 4, a consensus should be reached between the Ukrainian and Russian communities on changing information about countries. There is no consensus - there is no reason to separate the Crimea from Ukraine.

CrimeaІsUkraine #DWG #CrimeaMap #КримЦеУкраїна #ИхТамНет

https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/60199

https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/velmyshanovnyi - https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/2360 ; https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/velmyshanovnyi - https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/2359 ;
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Дівчина_з_Коломиї - https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/2357 ; https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/паляниця - https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/2356 ; https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/frankoivan - https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/2355 ; https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/pumpkinpie226 - https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/2354 ; https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Хтосьіншийдятел - https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/2353 ; https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/ue0 - https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/2350 ; https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/andergrin - https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/2348 ;
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/KKS - https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/2347 ; …and other

https://www.facebook.com/openstreetmapua // https://twitter.com/osm_ua // https://t.me/osmUA // openstreetmap.ua@gmail.com

Location: Shevchenkivskyi district, Kyiv, Ukraine

Comment from d1sr4n on 29 November 2018 at 23:33

Насколько я понимаю, идея OSM в объективном и актуальном описании того, что происходит де-факто. Пока над крымом развешаны российские флаги и действуют российские законы - это Россия. Если это изменится - будет Украина.

Разговаривайте свои политические дискуссии в другом месте. Здесь мы карты рисуем.

Политсрач #Флаг_Зимбабве #ASMR #МороженноеСВишней #Сомнительное_Пиво

Comment from velmyshanovnyi on 30 November 2018 at 10:16

двг - підняло срач

Comment from Vincent de Phily on 30 November 2018 at 14:15

As sympathetic as I am to the idea that the Crimea annexation was illegitimate, should have been prevented, and should be reverted, please give the DWG and OSM in general a rest, as it’s only following the https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images/d/d8/DisputedTerritoriesInformation.pdf directive dated from 2013 that represents the consensus from the OSM community. If anything, the most recent DWG decision just restores normality in OSM’s handling of disputed territories, by cancelling the temporary exception for Crimea that was in place (for many good reasons basically boiling down to “this is too new and controvertial, let’s do nothing until the dust settles a bit”).

If you want things to change (appart from Ukraine actually regaining control of Crimea), it’s the disputed territories directive that you need to challenge, not the DWG’s implementation of it. Propose changes to it and see if those can gain wide support. Note that this document is about all territory disputes in the world, nothing specific to Crimea or anywhere else. The current policy tries very hard to be impartial, objective, and apolitical; this leads very naturally to the “on the ground control” rule, which you apparently want to ignore in Crimea’s case. It’s always easyer to agree to a general policy when you’re not affected by it.

While we’re at it, I’m surprised to read so much backlash at OSM, but nothing at (for example) Google maps, which has displayed Crimea as part of Russia much earlyer than OSM. Yes, I know this depends on the viewer’s IP address, but these IP-guided non-decisions (GM does that in other parts of the world) have always seemed worse to me than OSM’s pragmatic objectivity stance.

Comment from velmyshanovnyi on 30 November 2018 at 23:11

woodpeck actions violate the law of Great Britain, international agreements and UN resolutions.

woodpeck (Frederik Ramm, frederik@remote.org) - he and his associates who call themselves “DWG” have been warned several times by different people about the unlawfulness of your actions and “resolutions” dated 14/11/2018 ( https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Group_Minutes/DWG_2018-11-14_Crimea ).

According to the current legislation of Great Britain, Ukraine, international agreements and UN resolutions, as a law-abiding citizen, I have to inform the relevant authorities about what happened. The links / screenshots / files / correspondence will be added to the statement of claim and will be considered in the near future. If you start hiding or avoiding official contacts, we reserve the right to escort your search using the interpol.

P.S. EXAMPLE: “lawful” woodpeck actions (which have already been recorded) according to Ukrainian legislation are estimated at 10 … 15 years imprisonment.

Comment from velmyshanovnyi on 30 November 2018 at 23:32

Crimea is Ukrainian territory (с) https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-supports-us-declaration-condemning-the-illegal-annexation-of-crimea


OpenStreetMap Foundation St John’s Innovation Centre Cowley Road Cambridge CB4 0WS United Kingdom

A company limited by guarantee, registered in England and Wales. Company Registration Number: 05912761 —————————————–

The OpenStreetMap Foundation in the form of DVG in this way, openly promotes separatism and openly violates the laws and decisions of the authorities of the United Kingdom for having to be liable under the laws of the United Kingdom under whose jurisdiction it operates.

Comment from redsteakraw on 1 December 2018 at 01:19

@velmyshanovnyi the only thing more pathetic than your desperate snitching is the patheticnes of the Ukrainian Military as they get humiliated again and again over and over again by the Russians. Really all the DWG did was state a fact, based on the objective facts gathered on the ground. OSM isn’t picking a side they have objective measures for which they come to the decisions. In this case control of the area is the metric for which the border is drawn. If you were to go to Crimea you wouldn’t see the Ukrainian government at all the Ukrainian government coward and ran and the military has cowardly done nothing. You want to turn your back on fundamental principles and promote border that lie about ground truth. But hey having no principles is fine for a cowardly snitch that has to try to bully others to get their way because they don’t have the facts on their side.

Comment from velmyshanovnyi on 1 December 2018 at 09:23

  • you have a house

  • the thief got into your house
  • the thief took from there the preciousness
  • the thief replaced the castle in the doorway
  • The thief stays in the house

and here - your home automatically became a thief! You called the police to tell about the crime and about your losses.

the police arrived and said - this is the house of a thief, because he is in it, and the keys to the castle in him.

neighbors say that this is YOUR home you show documents on YOUR HOUSE the bank requires YOUR money for YOUR home You live in a garbage dump


what is the house really a thief?

are you serious?

Comment from redsteakraw on 1 December 2018 at 12:42

@velmyshanovnyi you have to back up your property with some amount of force. Thief breaks into house owner shoots thief with shotgun. Thief breaks into house owner calls police and police shoot thief. Ukraine hasn’t lifted a finger to defend or protect Crimea. Furthermore when dealing with countries their one major property is to be the monopoly of legitimate violence in a geographic region, they were pushed out without a fight. Effectively you don’t have the property if there is no forced used to take it back and you effectively don’t control it and the authorities aren’t going to lift a finger either to take it back. Their job was to protect their areas and make sure no outside forces come in and they failed miserably. Ukraine is like calling the police and they just sit outside eating donuts crying about how dangerous the thief is and instead of protecting the house they write passive aggressive letters and threaten pedestrians that walk on the side walk. At the end of the day borders are controlled by force either forcing the citizens within through law or literally forcing invaders out, simply put without any presence of the Ukrainian government and no real challenges to the border, it simply isn’t being disputed. Again it’s pathetic.

Comment from Vincent de Phily on 1 December 2018 at 22:34

@redsteakraw there’s really no need to rub in more violence. The law of the strongest stems from a different era, and always comes biting you in the end.

@velmyshanovnyi sorry but you’re complaining at the wrong place. There’s nothing illegal in OSM depicting the de-facto borders rather than the borders as recognised by the UN or UK (or some other fancyfull fictional border for that matter). Only diplomacy and millitary can change the situation.


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