Thanks for the follow-up here in this page. My writing to you was definitely not meant as a “request” —I would not dare!— more as you said later, for letting you know.
While it stays open, I will occasionally come back to this sleeping issue and check how it follows. The updated statistics say:
good day @pedrito1414,
somehow I thought you mentioned a deadline, and no I don’t find it back. was it my wishful thinking, that I recall reading a “September 1st”?
anyhow, I hope you can give us an idea how long it’s going to take your organization, to clean up the tasking manager database. so we can help you reviewing your work. — please don’t come too close to the next ESRI GisDay! (as of today, and limiting to projects older than #7600 — opened 2019-12-20—, you’re still hosting 1814 “PUBLISHED” projects, of which “hot” directly owns 88.)
(my first impact with the hot tasking manager was because of project 4917, which had been created by @bgirardot for “youthmappers”. that project was closed without an evaluation …) I saw @bgirardot on your database associated to active projects, so I contacted him again by internal OSM mail, and he confirmed he’s not any more active on HOT nor YouthMappers. he’s still “author” (owner) of 30 “hot” projects, 2 “youthmappers” projects, plus several by other organizations. I obviously did not contact each and every other lost author, just the one I happened to meet with relation to Panama.
something else which I’m not sure I understand … when a project reaches 100% mapped and 100% validated, …, what is the next step according to you?
ideally, I would hope there came an evaluation, like let’s use the experience to make our next project even better, building on the positive parts and not repeating the mistakes.
I do understand that not all projects are “hot”, that most belong to other organizations, but as the hosting organization, you as “hot” do agree with my above “ideally”? if so, what are the practical consequences?
(what about projects with no validation activity during, say, the last 6 months?)
my sincere and utmost constructive regards,
Hi JJIglesias, thanks for writing here. I have done my best in the above text not to present my opinion, but to gather facts, numeric information that will tell us a story. if people don’t like these facts, I see two possible reactions: you can do as pedrito1414 is telling us: work at the process with an eye at these indicators. the other option is to “kill the messenger”. the two strategies are not equally effective at reducing the amount of complains you will hear: the first will trigger more requests to further improve your process, while the second is more likely to end it there.
Regarding JOSM, I am a very happy user of the two buildings_tools and utilsplugin2 plugins, and I keep learning new tricks making life easier and errors more difficult.
A conflict resolution process, or support, or group, would be nice. So much energy going into the CoC, and I wonder where that will lead us to, more rules, possibly more ground to justify conflicts, and not enough of a mature organization to begin with. I like the point of view “OSM is not a community, but a whole ecosystem”, in which to look for the right community.
hi all, me too, a late follow-up https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mariotomo/diary/397428. best regards.
when subscribing to the WeeklyOSM, I get a link, now with my script I get the content, which is ways more compact than visiting the site at the link.
about the RSS readers and low-bandwidth, I am following several news sources, all with which report their news with a single small thumbnail, and I’m happy with receiving them. I do not know why the WeeklyOSM is able to take such a long time for updating. maybe the thumbnails are at full resolution? anyhow: I’d rather not give up thumbnails all over the place only because one feed goes heavy on them, I prefer giving up that single feed, as I also did.
as usual: if it works, don’t fix it. and at the moment my patchy solution works.
buongiorno Riccardo, grazie per la dritta!
I wasn’t aware of the project rss2email and if I may judge it from the documentation, I do quite like it.
if you followed how this developed on the mailing lists and Telegram groups, you understood that I consider my ‘workaround’ as a symptom of a situation which, I hope, the WeeklyOSM team will acknowledge and address directly.
grazie ancora per rss2email, me lo installo subito! MF
pues cierto, una nuvem de gafanhotos! yo les digo Panzerwagen, un vehículo blindado, tanto por ser imparable, como por la dificultad de abrir los canales de comunicación con quien está a su interior y quien está al mando de esa Wehrmacht.
Eu os chamo de “Panzerwagen”, os veículos blindados que invadiram a Polônia em 1939, tanto por serem imparáveis quanto pela dificuldade de abrir canais de comunicação com quem está dentro e com quem está no comando daquela Wehrmacht.
aguardar pra ver o resultado, no les sugiero hacerlo así.
mi experiencia en Panamá con el grupo de https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/andrewwiseman no es muy positiva. inicialmente no los había identificado como grupo, y al enterarme que estaba Apple detrás de tantas “mejoras”, le pedí que por lo menos se identificaran.
ahora con alguna regularidad los vemos entrar en el país y mejorar un aspecto, sin consultarse con la comunidad, sin intentar entender las particularidades físicas del país, sin considerar si lo que van mejorando fue mapeado por alguna importación antigua, o si lo acabamos de revisar manualmente.
al quejarse con ellos, se ofenden pues les resulto “rude” (grosero?)
al sugerirle mejoras, me dicen “Thanks for the comment, it is well noted.” y la vez siguiente igual, y obviamente si se lo vuelvo a decir me contestan “Yes, you have already said that and I already said I understand.”
quizás ayude comentar en su sistema de manejos de issues?
yo creo que si les dicen que no hay prisa de deshacer, no lo van a deshacer ni hoy ni antes de volver a editar nuevamente sin buscar coordinación ni siquiera informarles de las intenciones.
inicialmente nos dijeron “Road Network Improvements (in Brazil)”, luego sin cerrar el issue, todo se volvió “Data Improvements”, on 14 Jan 2020. esto en mi opinión y experiencia con los sistemas de manejo de incidencias, es una mala práctica.
Hi Zverik, thank you for spending time on my writing.
feels really complex
feels really complex
I’m happy you use the word “complex” and not “complicated”. I agree it takes a bit of setting up and getting used to. once done, I find that it flows smoothly and saves me time.
Why just not people sort it out themselves?
Why just not people sort it out themselves?
that’s a valid question, but it is a question to which I have no answer.
I have noticed that this won’t happen, I’ve seen several groups (ex1 - ex2 - ex3) where the presence of sleeping scammers is or was accepted by admins as a matter of fact (the one in ex3 I’m now managing with the above logic). in my personal opinion, in some cases the noise produced by scammers joining, leaving, and the administrative actions related to cleaning is so high that you have to scan deep in the group, to find the desired signal. I like the options offered by miss Rose, a bot which will stay in the background most of the time, and does not leave any permanent trace in the group unless explicitly asked for.
thank you all. it’s heartwarming. I’ll keep trying moderate my tone before writing, and … oh, well, just thank you all.
hola Pedrito! maybe the following belongs to your issue manager.
one thing I would like is if there were ways to add the specific task to the commit message.
second thing… I would discourage such long lists of hashtags which make things only confusing, like ` #hotosm-project-10318 #YouthMappers #Buildings #CarnavalesPanamá #JovenesMapeadoresUP `
I find this particular case highly confusing because: #CarnavalesPanamá is an event, and it’s being prolonged now in the “fast” (cuaresma). #YouthMappers and #JovenesMapeadoresUP identify a global and a local group, and the HOT task is available to all. #buildings is terribly unspecific.
but see it yourself. I would use the task ID suggestion in the changeset comment!
Hi Pete, thank you warmly for this diary entry!
I think you included all issues we mentioned in our chat, and added a couple more relevant points. this makes this page very complete, but also difficult to comment to it, for you may expect up to 9 separate threads flowing from here.
assuming you want to consider these issues as related to your HOT Tasking Manager, they could be hosted in the issues manager for that software project, even if not all are strictly software issues, but relate to the use we make of your software and online service.
about the “project creators” issue, I think you HOT should put a hard limit to the amount of projects that can be associated to a single project creator. 200 becomes a full time job! a different option is for the TM to include an extra role, something like a local contact or local organization, behind the project and backing the project creator. I do not know what requirements you would set for them, and to my personal opinion is that I would rather have a local project creator, not a centralized one: my impression is that this YM practice defeats your HOT correction to the original situation »When the tasking manager was completely open for anyone to build projects in«. so my advise is that HOT poses a hard limit to the amount of simultaneously open projects associated to the same project creator. this would also help avoiding dangling projects.
about the “projects can overlap” issue, there are cases where this is reasonable, and well implemented, a good example is in Costa Rica: 2353 vs. 2354/5/6. unfortunately bgirardot is yet another example of non-local project creator and this group of projects is yet another example of dangling projects.
interessante, grazie, soprattutto l’opzione per il “vecchio smartphone di backup”. ho segnalato questo tuo scritto ai “senderistas” che ho nel gruppo Panamá, spero che la traduzione automatica sia sufficiente. io per conto mio quando vado in una zona nuova, mi appoggio ad uno o due apparati: un N900 ed un vecchio Android. per la gestione delle mappe sono rimasto con Mappero, che mi permette scaricarmi i tasselli di una zona prima di partire, e mi garantisce che non farà pulizia automatica semplicemente perché sì, cosa che invece pratica OSMTracker. per la registrazione della traccia, uso OSMTracker in Android, perché mi facilita molto l’invio della traccia registrata verso OSM. Mappero gestisce i POI indipendentemente dalle tracce registrate, cosa che mi permette annotare destinazioni sia prima di andare sul luogo. non mi sono mai posto la questione del consumo di batteria, sarebbe interessante confrontare GPS Logger con OSMTracker.