@mikelmaron Thank you for those points and I agree with you.
At every opportunity I make mappers aware that we are a part of OSM and all our mapping must conform to OSM requirements. Part of the training I give is pointing out that all our mapping should be about having all the buildings, roads, waterways and landuse in alignment with each other.
As a cartographer that is the best advice I can give considering that the GPS we use only has a 5 metre accuracy at best, the available satellite imagery can be anything up to 30 metres out (highlighted in the seams of the tile joins), plus the resolution of some of the imagery is too grainy to get a perfect shape or size of a building. Add on to that that some imagery is being updated annually and each time it gets compiled they change the imagery autoadjust and the previous mapping no longer fits. So when we talk about “quality mapping” we need to understand what that is and how to realistically apply that within the time constraints of a disaster.
You will also note that I do not ignore the local communities and I actively promote their involvement to adopt the basic mapping that can be achieved by remote mapping, to ground truth what has been mapped so far and to add the annotation and depth of information to the mapped features.
Regarding your comment “Lastly, disaster activation is a big part of what HOT does, but not the only thing.” I agree, which is why I emphasised With our HOT hat on” indicating among other things.
Different mapping is different things to different people and one size does not fit all which is why we are now seeing OpenSeaMap, OpenSnowMap, OpenCycleMap, etc. A while ago I proposed to the OSM community that OSM should consider different layers that can be switched on or off to allow for specialised mapping to be overlayed on the OSM base map but this was not viewed favourably. We have lost a lot of real cartographic value and diversity by not allowing for that.
I see little mention of the Missing Maps project in the planning narrative which is about premapping an area to put vulnerable people on the map and prepare for possible disaster and this is where the local communities of OSM mappers can influence and update the depth of data that is of value to their communities. And yes HOT is also a part of that.
Thanks again @mikelmaron for giving me the opening to elaborate further regarding my previous post.
Hi Rubén and welcome to HOT,
I am adding here the response I sent to Bo Percival. My point is we are losing sight of HOT and confusing it with OpenStreetMap. Many of the points mentioned above are in actual fact best suited for directing at the OpenStreetMap community.
I think it is too easy to lose sight of who we are in the face of demands and criticism and the drive to achieve our Audacious target. We need to step back and assess ourselves and focus.
We are HOT - Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team.
With our HOT hat on
1. Our specific function would be to prepare basic mapping for the First Responders on the ground in the aftermath of a disaster so that they can do their job effectively and efficiently - Save lives. This mapping is extremely time sensitive and we need to try and get the best possible standard to them in the shortest possible time.
2. We follow on with completing the coverage and cleaning up the mapping so that the Humanitarian Aid can work out the logistics of doing their job of sustaining the communities devastated by the disaster.
3. We encourage the local population to take responsibility for adding ground truthing and local knowledge to this basic mapping to improve the richness of the data and make it more usable for the local community.
This mapping is specifically intended for the purposes stated above and should not be mistaken for a high quality work of brilliant cartography.
With other projects or campaigns, the size and length of the activation and the specific requirements of the teams on the ground will dictate what we map and how quickly it is needed.
It was never HOT’s intention to produce high quality sustainable mapping. That is the remit of the OpenStreetMap community. What HOT is achieving in most cases is good maps that make it possible for the teams on the ground to do their job.
Our immediate concerns are getting good mapping to the people that require it in time for it to be of use.
Many of the points mentioned above are in actual fact best suited for directing at the OpenStreetMap community.
I think it is too easy to lose sight of who we are in the face of demands and criticism and we need to step back and assess ourselves and focus.
We are HOT - Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team.
I noted your diary entry where you say you have your iPad open with Google maps to see the buildings better. Please do not do that. Google maps are copyright material and to use that for drawing on OpenStreetMap will compromise the OpenStreetMap Copyright. OSM has to remain completely free. We cannot and MUST NOT copy from any other online or paper maps to preserve the free from copyright status that OSM has.
Ik merkte je dagboekvermelding op waar je zegt dat je je iPad open hebt met Google Maps om de gebouwen beter te zien. Doe dat alstublieft niet. Google Maps zijn copyright materiaal en om dat te gebruiken voor het tekenen op OpenStreetMap zal het copyright van OSM in gevaar brengen. OSM moet volledig gratis blijven. We KUNNEN EN MOGEN NIET kopiëren van andere online-of papieren kaarten om de vrij van auteursrecht status die OSM heeft te behouden.
Co-Chair - Activation Working Group
Lead Validator - Global Activation Coordination Team
Tutor and Validator Coordinator - London Missing Maps Group
Thank you Amna for your eye witness account and experiences. This sort of feedback is very helpful in getting the remote mappers to understand the need for mapping. If you have any photographs of the villages, buildings and roads these would be very helpful as well for the validators and mappers.
Thank you Martin, once again you are helping to make some sense out of this complex chaos. Agreed there are so many parameters that skew the figures but you do admit that this is a rough guide to what is actually happening and gives us a yardstick to measure things. Once a start has been made the figures can be more finely tuned as the data is refined.
What is becoming more apparent each time you produce stats is the following…..
a] Newcomers that jump in and try to help during a crisis are far more prone to do just a few edits then drop out. My experience of this points to them setting out with meaning, finding it not as easy to do as expected (or not sure they are competent enough) and drop out. Many people are working hard on the LearnOSM (also translating it in to many different languages) and other ways to reach these beginners to help them to make sense of and gain confidence in their ability to help
b] Mappers who attend Mapathons receive a basic training before starting and have people around to answer their queries. They go home with a great deal more confidence in their ability to add things to the map and many come back to Mapathons repeatedly for further contact and also help to move from iD to JOSM and validator training.
My conclusion and aim is to see Mapathons spread to more countries, cities, towns, universities as this will be the future pool of core mappers that will keep things moving on.
Keep the stats coming and helping us to help others.
OK, set up on Mumble and audio is loud and clear
I am unable to be at tonight’s Mapathon but have signed up to attend remotely so will be able to assist if there are any queries.
Will try to connect on Mumble as well.