How should we tag LGBTQ venues?Posted by ᚛ᚐᚋᚐᚅᚇᚐ᚜ 🏳️🌈 on 26 October 2018 in English (English).
I’m thinking about how best to tag LGBTQ venues, (e.g. “gay bars”). And I’m not sure how to do it. I’ve started a thread on the tagging@ & diversity-talk@ lists.
Initially I thought
lgbtq=yes was a good tag, but now I’m not sure. Does anyone have any advice for a way to tag them in keeping with the OSM tagging conventions?
lgbtq=primary is a good idea. So a LGBTQ bar/”gay bar” would be
Comment from ChristianSW on 26 October 2018 at 15:49
I found this in the wiki:
As you write, maybe it’s better to use:
Comment from Alan Trick on 26 October 2018 at 15:55
Personally, I think
lgbtq=designatedis the best. Designated (at least in the access tags) doesn’t necessarily mean that it was designated by some official body, just that that is how the space is used in practice by people on the ground.
My main concern would be that LGBTQ is too broad of a designation (what if there are gay-specific bars, or trans-specific bar) but I don’t know much about the community to know if that’s realistically an issue.
Comment from ᚛ᚐᚋᚐᚅᚇᚐ᚜ 🏳️🌈 on 26 October 2018 at 16:04
@ChristianSW I covered problems with the
gay=*tag in my first email, namely the LGBTQ community is larger than just gay (men).
@Alan Trick: There are a minority of LGBTQ venues aimed at certain subsets of the LGBTQ community, I think that could be solved with
lgbtq:X=(primary/no/only)" etc. (e.g.lgbtq:lesbian=primary
-> mainly a lesbian venue.lgbtq:lesbian=no
-> no lesbians allowed.lgbtq:lesbian=only
only lesbians (though I'm unsure about 'only')), so further details can be tagged.lgbtq=primary/designed/whatever` can mean “the LGBTQ in general”.
I thought about
=designated, and it’s in keeping with OSM conventions. I thought it was only for things officially designed that by an official body. LGBTQ venues aren’t like that. 🤔
Comment from Alan Trick on 26 October 2018 at 16:21
I’m mostly familiar with “designated” in the context of bike trails. Often these designations aren’t official because there’s no official body responsible for them. The wiki page does say “typically by a government” but I think this is a case where ground truth is more important.
Comment from Nelson Minar on 27 October 2018 at 19:41
FWIW, right now
gay=*seems most popular, with 686 tags. I agree
lgbtqor some variant would be more inclusive, but you might be able to learn something by looking at how
gayhas been used so far here: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/gay#overview
Comment from ftrebien on 30 October 2018 at 01:44
In my not-so-extensive experience as a cis gay guy, restrictions and status (friendly vs preferred vs advertised) expected/enforced by services, dance clubs and sex clubs usually apply on:
Reality allows for any combination of these and many more (looking at LGBTTQQIAAP and the Genderbread Person :P), but some are really common and some are very rare. In OSM we usually want both simplicity and expressiveness. I think a scheme inspired by access:conditional could bring interesting possibilities, so I’ll do some research to try to expand on this.
Comment from ᚛ᚐᚋᚐᚅᚇᚐ᚜ 🏳️🌈 on 30 October 2018 at 08:51
@ftrebrien I’m suggesting
lgbtq:*=*. So one can map
lgbtq=primaryfor a simple, general case, and go into more details with
lgbtq:gay_male=no, etc., etc.
Comment from Carlos_Sánchez on 11 November 2018 at 17:00
Why these 5 letters and no others. I prefer a specific word that can unify everyone. Maybe queer or “rainbow”.
Comment from ᚛ᚐᚋᚐᚅᚇᚐ᚜ 🏳️🌈 on 12 November 2018 at 10:58
@Carlos LGBTQ = lesbian, gay, bi, trans and queer. It’s a common acronym. Not all people identify (or want to identify) as queer, since it has often been used against them.
I’m open to using other acronyms, but I suspect we’ll always come up short. 🙂