fixed issues with iD validator
Closed over 2 years ago by Allison P
Hi, I have noticed you have changed quite some crossing=zebra to an undocumented tag (crossing=marked). Can you give me a hint what is the idea behind this?
i am disturbed by this too, as it seems information of importance both for pedestrians and drivers, is being lost to the validator. that may not be relevant everywhere in the world.
for me, a zebra crossing is a special legal concept and is different from a marked non-zebra crossing - whose status probably also means something.
are you manually making these changes and choosing to delete the zebra/pelican/whatever info to match your circumstances? there seem to be far more changes here than would apply to a manual fix-up, and i'd hate to see this applied to parts of the world where it matters.
Yes, this was all from the validator. The validator automatically suggests changing crossing=zebra to crossing=marked and can do this completely automatically. It's possible the changeset tags for what issues were fixed is broken. Anyway, I didn't know about this controversy regarding certain tag changes, so I will turn off issues regarding "outdated" tags. Also, I don't think the tag crossing=zebra means much to Americans; I've only heard it being referred to as a marked crosswalk. I don't really see the difference or what data is being lost, but I'm not sure why iD would suggest that change. I'll make sure the validator avoids doing that in the future. The changes are automatic, too; I didn't see how they were different so at the time the tag change seemed fair to me.
One more thing: I didn't notice the validator changing crossings besides zebra, and I didn't even know there were different crossing types named after different animals. The problem is that they don't make any sense for most people in the US, since we have different names. I personally don't have separate names for each type of crossing, and I don't know of anyone who does. I think it's a bit questionable that this was included in iD if it's nowhere near agreed upon.
This, & other iD 'validations' are very worrying
The correct tagging for crossing with painted white stripes is:
crossing=uncontrolled (if it hasn't any vehicle restricting lights)
I note this was performed in around 30 seconds. I don't use iD. Is it possible to collect data together for a mass edit similar to how it can be done in JOSM?
Thank you for replying. To be fair, I have seen some gorgeous "outdated tags" improvements in iD recently (referring to wikidata integration when you add a chain name to a shop in the name tag you will get suggestions to auto-add brand and wikidata tags for this brand, really cool), but there are controversies (currently discussed on talk and tagging mail list) with the crossing tags and eventually more, so turning them completely off may get you rid of some cool stuff as well, just be careful and when in doubt, reluctant ;-)
Have fun mapping!
I'll go through the list manually from now on and fix other kinds of tags but leave the crossings be. I'm not usually an on the ground mapper because my area is very suburban and there's nothing useful to map here so I haven't really familiarised myself with the tagging for features that can only be determined from being on the ground or looking at 360 photos. My usual area is very inactive so I almost never get feedback on my edits.
@DaveF, this changeset wasn't that quick. I opened up JOSM while working on this changeset to revert something else that I knew the validator couldn't fix.
iD is very inefficient; I'm not an expert coder but since changesets can't be saved in files I think it's stored in memory; but since sites can't directly do that the end result is JOSM barely slows down after making tens of thousands of changes and iD locks up after around 1000 on even the most high-end consumer computers. Thus many changesets are necessary for what can be done in one on JOSM.
I can understand you're astonished about the publicity, it is because you have been featured on the talk mailing list ;-)
Well, I suppose it did have to come up at some point. Most of the details are accurate, but I do actually run editing sessions in tandem sometimes. I also am familiar with using JOSM, but I prefer iD most of the time because it's easier to use. My changesets took significantly longer than what people were saying; 30-60 seconds was the time it took for the changes to be uploaded and the changeset closed (as iD does automatically)
thanks for your feedback about how tagging applies to you locally. i just spent the last hours reviewing the osm wiki entries for tagging crossings to see how things currently stand. then i got lost trying to catch up on the discussion this month on the tagging list where i tuned out before a conclusion was reached, that seems to be vaguely related to the marked crossing change here.
if i understand you, and it also appears crossing=zebra may also be an iD addition the authors now want to backpedal, the way the road is marked, be it zebra stripes, parallel lines, dotted lines ... makes no legal difference in your mapping area, which appears to what the iD developers are going on, while the wiki page as well as the linked wikipaedia page points to other parts of the world with significant differences, and i am unsure if the zebra value in osm data merely outlines the physical difference, or if it can also be a guide to routers.
which means your edits here probably have not damaged the map, but definitely would be likely to do so in much of the rest of the world, where the zebra info will get lost (rather than the current suggestion of _ref that iD is not using in addition to an undocumented tagging apparently from the mailing list, but then again after not even half the now 78 page index, i again glazed over once more)
this is of course for the iD developers to address, but as they have outright rejected the mailing lists and wiki pages, i'm not holding my breath about this item as it seems to be a candidate needing manual review against aerials and by country, not to automate.
i noted i was unable to automagically create such a zebra crossing in potlatch 2, and i can't guess how many of the numbers on the list i saw thrown about originate in iD and are inaccurate.
thanks for your understanding.
Hi, you have added barrier=kerb to highway=crossing nodes, and with that you seem to have introduced quite a few routing issues. Like, a barrier on a pedestrian crossing is the same as a barrier on a road, and thus you've marked some non-existent barriers on Manhattan streets. Was that a well-thought decision?
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