Changeset: 61959067
Retagging the River Dart river bank as a riverbank, it had been tagged as a coastline, despite the `waterway=river` way that was accurately mapped down its centre line. Removing the riverbank from the GB multipolygon.
Closed by keithonearth
Tags
created_by | JOSM/1.5 (14178 en) |
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source | OSM data; Bing |
Discussion
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Comment from keithonearth
I debated about doing this edit, because it is a significant change, but in the end can see no reason for the coast to continue as far upstream as it had been. Also it seems contradictory to have the river centre line mapped as a `waterway=river` while the banks are `natural=coastline`.
This edit does change the rendering, slightly to my surprise, most noticeably with areas of mud and water rendered less prominently, but still visible.
I've done my best to maintain the edit history's of the various ways that had made up the river bank, despite needing to divide and recombine them to make them into circular ways.
Overall I'm confident this edit is beneficial. As long as I didn't make any dumb mistakes.
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Comment from Colin Smale
Please review the definition of coastline, and then revert these changes.
Remember OSM is not the map you see, it is about the underlying database. Fiddling with the tagging to give the rendering effect you desire is frowned upon, as you probably know...
Was your debate purely with yourself? If you want to make such significant changes, debating with local users is the way to go. -
Comment from keithonearth
Although I did mention the effects to rendering, my change was specifically with the goal of improving the underlying database. I tagged a riverbank as a riverbank, not for rendering reasons, but because it more effectively reflects reality.
I apologise if I've broken a UK mapping convention. I did check how other local rivers were tagged ( https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5557215 https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/3344879 ) and found the riverbanks tagged as expected, but didn't investigate beyond those those two randomly selected rivers.
I have reviewed the definition of coastline, and do not see anything about tagging tidal rivers as coastlines. Perhaps you could specifically say what it was you wanted me to take away from reading it?
This edit also removed the (meta)relation "Great Britain (6038068)" from the riverbank, because as it was tagged as coastline, it was included in this relation. Somehow suggesting that the bridges in Totnes pass over international waters.... That not right.
To say that the sea goes all the way to the weir in Totnes (https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/619340695) is inaccurate, and misleading. Although yes, the tidal effect can be seen this far. I would suggest using the `waterway=riverbank` tag in combination with the `tidal=yes` tag would more accurately reflect the real situation. I'd be only too happy to add the tidal tag to the riverbank ways.
I also will point out that we are not debating the location of the mouth of the River Dart, as I have not changed that. The `waterway=river` way has been left unchanged, and I have maintained the existing location chosen to terminate this waterway.
I'm sorry if I've made a mistake, but I have yet to hear a clear argument why my edit is a mistake.
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Comment from keithonearth
I posted a question to help.osm.org here: https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/65629/
Please feel free to explain your rational there. Additionally if there is any documentation of this convention to tag rivers as sea-coasts I'd really appreciate you providing a link.
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Comment from Joseph E
I believe you should revert the change.
We discussed this on the Tagging mailing list: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2018-September/038912.html
One comment from Christoph Hormann: "The coastline closure there is both below the lower limit of the proposal and below the the range i
can imagine a meaningful coastline closure rule to allow."
...
"That is largely not really an estuary but more of a ria. I have no data for this at hand but you can likely see an abrupt change in the elevation profile near Totnes where the submerged section of the former river valley starts. So in this case it would make a lot of sense to place the coastline closure near the upper end of the tidal section because this is much better defined in terms of physical geography."Also, on the GP tagging list this issue was discussed recently: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2018-August/021885.html (and following messages):
"The wiki suggests the coastline should be
the high water line going up to the tidal limit (often a lock or a wier) but this can be a substantial distance inland. This is AIUI the general scientific approach." - Colin Smale"The River Dart [Way: 194211894 waterway= riverbank] is a really arbitrary line across the river from Dartmouth Castle, this offends my view of what a coastline is." -TonyS999
Please fix this
Ways (20)
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- 281000109, v3
Relations (2)
Nodes (2)
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