pnorman has commented on the following diary entries

Post When Comment
Japan, why are you so beautiful? 10 months ago

When did you ship Eric off to North Korea? ;)


New Telenav Mapping Project: Dual Carriageways 10 months ago

In OSM however, they are often mapped like this

Surely you mean in the unedited US? ;)

New Telenav Mapping Project: Dual Carriageways 10 months ago

In OSM however, they are often mapped like this

Surely you mean in the unedited US? ;)

Voting is bullshit 11 months ago

With the exception of a few foundation-related matters (board elections, some WGs, etc) we don't use voting in OSM. You don't need the authority of a vote to tag a way, and there's no requirement to follow what has been voted on.

The part of proposing a new tag that has value is explaining it to others.

Radios Censales De Argentina 12 months ago

I'm not sure how this connects to OSM. All you've given is some screenshots of data without any text. Is this data in OSM?

The diversity-talk list 12 months ago

Any idea how many subscribers there are to diversity-talk? It seems that only about 20-30 people are writing there, but is the circle that small, or are there many silent readers?

Although the list has always been mainly white anglo-americans, the recent moderator actions have caused some members to leave in disgust. This has left a list less diverse than others, an ironic state for a list named diversity-talk@

And I wonder if the list can really come out of that without simply dissapearing and reappearing in an other form…

We don't normally shut down lists, but given that the list was already quiet for months on end, the latest subscriber loss is going to destroy any relevance it had left.

It is disappointing, but I guess it's unlikely to have an impact. It's not as if the list was able to impose anything on other mappers outside of the list, and as I said above, it has no activity for months on end.

It will be as before - those who care about diversity will work on it, without regards to the list.

OSM issues apparently ? 12 months ago

For the ability draw data on top of OSM data you can use umap.

A Proposal to improve the OSMF by Separating Out the Board from Officers about 1 year ago

Minor note, all directors are generally officers of the company, although others may also be officers.

It's largely a terminology matter.

Rendering Oddness for Runway Refs about 1 year ago

/ is the more standard way to indicate runway refs.

The trouble with the ODbL - summarized about 1 year ago

It does not cover hundreds of use of OSM data where the ODbL license is not an issue at all.

Including the data that OSM can use only because it is distributed under the ODbL license!

OpenStreetMap Carto v2.22.0 about 1 year ago

(When) is it live rendering on

It's already live but it can take a day or so for the servers to catch up with the backlog of re-rendering everything while serving everything live. Also, if you're having issues that don't seem to go away, completely clear the cache of your browser, view the map, wait a few minutes, then clear it again.

Importing 1 million New York City buildings and addresses over 1 year ago

Now that we've got it imported, when will NYC be releasing new data, and how will we handle updating it?

Complex Intersections, or Why We Should Get Rid Of exit_to over 1 year ago

I don't understand your questioning about the destination reference. Why not simply use the tag 'ref' on the link way if it's valide after the junction node

Frequently the link road does not itself have a reference, or at least not the same reference.

In one example locally, there is an exit signed as the exit to get to Highway 17, but Highway 17 is 4-5 km away through secondary roads and over a 1km bridge. This is a bit extreme, but a good example of how the destination refs may be quite distinct from the refs of the roads themselves.

Adding to the support for destination, both MapQuest Open and GraphHopper are consumers who support it.

OpenStreetMap and the Open Data Movement over 1 year ago

Yesterday I had a short exchange of tweets with somebody that was surprised that was using google maps instead of OSM. Given that it is rather a convoluted subject, explaining why this in fact is not surprising was a bit difficult in 140 letters and is what prompted me to create this post.

I'd probably boil it down to they're using closed data instead of open data on their page. Many people assume open data is government data. Some even go so far as to say that any government data posted is open data, regardless of license. There seems to be a widening awareness that there are many non-government open data sources, including OSM, and that they come from a variety of sources, including companies.

Note: I gave a talk on how open data isn't just from governments.

GraphHopper 0.3 released: Fast Route Planner Beyond Two Dimensions over 1 year ago

Is GraphHopper now supporting turn restriction relations?

Heatmap made easy with uMap over 1 year ago

Great to see more heatmap options. Are you able to change the colours used to a more traditional heatmap option?

If you're using Leaflet.heat, does come with the same advantages and disadvantages of it?

I've looked at Leaflet.heat, but it falls down in the face of large datasets.

highway=bus_stop - Mappen für den Renderer over 1 year ago

Also the assumption "1 node where PT users are waiting" is wrong. As I pointed out in a comment above there are over 100000 bus_stops mapped together with stop_position. Which means probably most of them are on the road.

Your numbers are wrong. 1142673/1295234 (88%) of highway=bus_stop are not part of any way. Of the 12% that are part of a way, a reasonable portion of those will be part of a footway, not part of the road. There's a pretty clear standard usage.

This is consistent with the long-standing method of the node being at the pole location, not the the middle of the road.

In short, highway=bus_stop is the standard way to indicate the pole location of a bus stop, and will likely continue to be for the foreseeable future.

My Experience, Accuracy over 1 year ago

You're not going to get an accuracy of better than 5 feet out of a cell phone GPS. In practice, the best accuracy is from properly aligned imagery, the type city GIS departments purchase.

OpenStreetMap Isn't All That Open, Let's Change That and Drop Share-Alike over 1 year ago
  • If the NYC government wanted to copy buildings that have changed from OpenStreetMap to the NYC building dataset they couldn't as their data needs to remain in the public domain.

Are you proposing that OSM change to a public domain like license like CC0 or PDDL?

OpenStreetMap Isn't All That Open, Let's Change That and Drop Share-Alike over 1 year ago

I would be inclined to give the argument more credence if not for three significant shortcomings

"Less" free

You start by stating that a copyleft license is less free. It is, at the very least, debatable if a license that does not guarantee continuing freedom to use the data and improvements is any freer. It allows anyone to convert the data into a proprietary dataset, taking away freedom.

Ignored costs of a decisive change

You've completely ignored the costs of changing the license. I’m not speaking solely of monetary and time costs, but also social costs. If you don't recall, the license change from CC BY SA to ODbL was highly decisive, took considerable time, and taking such a decisive action has been compared to the project shooting itself in the foot. Any reasonable discussion has been derailed by people insisting on public domain (e.g. because that's all some governments can work with), completely ignoring the fact that public domain, CC0 or PDDL would render us unable to use most government, company, or crowd-sourced open data. I see this happening again, with you talking about the census bureau.

I did a significant chunk of the work cleaning up data not covered by the redaction bot. It was weeks of soul-draining work and late nights. Any future change that would require us to remove the CC BY-SA/ODbL dual-licensed data in the database would be, by my estimation, worse.

An argument coming from a company with a questionable track record on compliance

When considering Alex’s argument it’s important to consider its context, including where it’s coming from. Mapbox and Mapbox customers have a questionable record on meeting the attribution requirements of the ODbL. We're not talking about issues on space-constrained mobile apps, we're talking about full-screen webmaps on a desktop display with no attribution text at all. This isn’t something that’s ODbL specific – a significant portion of open data out there has attribution requirements. Until recently had no reference to OpenStreetMap, despite being based on essentially only OSM data at higher zooms. Even now, it hides the attribution in a means of questionable adequacy.

In conclusion, I found a particularly relevant quote from the Free Software Foundation

Proprietary software developers, seeking to deny the free competition an important advantage, will try to convince authors not to contribute libraries to the GPL-covered collection. For example, they may appeal to the ego, promising “more users for this library” if we let them use the code in proprietary software products. Popularity is tempting, and it is easy for a library developer to rationalize the idea that boosting the popularity of that one library is what the community needs above all.

But we should not listen to these temptations, because we can achieve much more if we stand together. We free software developers should support one another. By releasing libraries that are limited to free software only, we can help each other's free software packages outdo the proprietary alternatives. The whole free software movement will have more popularity, because free software as a whole will stack up better against the competition.

p.s. Unless you have a special license, you're not meeting the CC BY-SA license that the photo you're using is distributed under