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Vikumberg, Fünfenberg, Tabor nad Botačem, Draški Tabor, Tabor di Draga, Castello di Moccó, Lorencan, Sv. LorencPosted by Zeno Kugy on 19 May 2015 in English (English)
I try to make some order concerning the ruins of Tabor of Draga (node 2446922919), of Moccó-Zabrežec castle (node 2446922916), and of Fünfenberg/Vikumberg (node 2448428184). I will also discuss the overlapping Lorencan (node 325711255).
These area have been edited/deleted/reverted many times, very likely in good faith believing to fix errors, but actually introducing wrong names, removing correct ones, and messing up positions. What made things more complicated is that all these localities are referred with names in at least three different languages (German, Italian, Slovenian), and the same applies also to documents. This post is intended to share information about the topic, trying to get these nodes finally correct and stable.
First of all, two useful links showing maps of the area:
- www.Geopedia.si (maps of Slovenia)
- http://www.archiviodistatotrieste.it/AriannaWeb/main.htm#15888_archivio - Maps of the Franziskaner Kataster (select Distretto di Fünfenberg and then Comune di Draga S. Elia or Comune di Occisla)
Lorencan (aka Sv.Lorenc) is just the name of the spur where the Tabor of Draga is erected. It hosts also an archaelogical site. Source: http://www.arzenal.si/sarnas/najdisce/755
While the locations of the Moccó and Draga castles are quite clear (near Moccó and Draga, where else?), it is Fünfenberg / Vikumberg that causes some problems.
According the the book "Guida del Carso Triestino" von Dante Cannarella, 1970, Vikumberg/Fünfenberg is a synonym of Moccó.
According to "I castelli del Carso medioevale", cited in http://www.atrieste.eu/Forum3/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=6390 "the castle Fünfenberg, also known as Vicumbergo, was located on a spur over the houses of Botazzo", "it was known at the end of its existence as Tabor of Draga".
The two above citations are wrong and were more recently amended:
According to Radacich in "Val Rosandra. Guida alla sua storia e ai suoi piccolo segreti", 2009, in fact, "much information were passed from author to author without verifications"
According to a post in a forum about Trieste history (http://www.atrieste.eu/Forum3/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=6390) : "this castle had many names during his history: castle of Draga, of Vicumberg, of Vinchumberg and at end tower of Fünfenberg to distinguish it from another castle of Fünfenberg located not far from the Slovenian locality of Beka".
According to Italian Wikipedia (http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabor_di_Draga), "The Tabor of Draga (historically named Taber, called also erroneously Castle of Draga, in Slovenian Tabor nad Botačem or Draški Tabor) is located … on a spur above the hamlet of Botac - Botazzo, in Rosandra valley", "The tabor has benn often confused with the medieval castle of Vinchimberch near Beka, of completely different nature and epoch". Approximately The same in Slovenian Wikipedia (http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabor_nad_Bota%C4%8Dem)
According to Italian Wikipedia (http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castello_di_Vinchimberch), "The Castle of Vinchimberch was build on the top of a hill located at the confluence of the Rosandra creek Grižnik creeks, in elevated position, although far from villages and roads","1249 the bishop of Trieste allowed Almerico Charsperch to build a castle in locality Dinga". According to Wikipedia Dinga should correspond to Pod Lorenzon near Botazzo, although I suppose it corresponds to the nearby Trenka. Anyway both these localities are located on the same hill, so that doesn't matter very much. The same in Slovenian wikipedia (http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grad_Vikumberg )
Both entries in Wikipedia cite:
- Fulvio Colombo, Il "taber" di Draga e la genesi delle strutture erette a difesa delle incursioni turche nei dintorni di Trieste alla fine del quattrocento, v "Archeografo Triestino", CX, 2002, str. 285-322
- Maurizio Radacich, Val Rosandra: guida alla sua storia e ai suoi piccoli segreti, edizioni Italo Svevo, Trieste 2009
1) There are actually three different castle ruins, not just two:
- Castle of Moccó- Zabrežec (node 2446922916)
- Tabor di Draga = Tabor nad Botačem = Draški Tabor (node 2446922919)
- Vinchimberch = Vikumberg (node 2448428184)
2) The name Fünfenberg has been used by some authors for all three castles. To avoid further confusion I would avoid using it as an official name, just as old_name.
3) Lorencan = Sv. Lorenc is just the name of the spur and archeological site where the Tabor of Draga was erected (node 325711255)
A useful list if someone want to map name:hu for bilingual towns in Slovenia:
It contains the official list of all street names from Slovenia.
I have already performed the part concerning name:it, since that was an area I knew and/or where I could perform surveys, but name:hu is still incomplete. This was also a good opportunity to fix wrong names or map unmapped roads.
Lession learnt: don't rely only on Google Maps when checking street names: sometimes they were inconsistent with surveys and geopedia.si