OpenStreetMap

SomeoneElse has commented on the following diary entries

Post When Comment
Clean up the "fixme's" around you! 5 days ago

... and for the ones that need a physical survey, https://github.com/SomeoneElseOSM/Notes01 (shameless plug) will let you create a GPX file for a Garmin handheld for local surveying or both notes and fixmes.

mileage convertion when reading 2 points 12 days ago

Assuming you're talking about directions, use the website that's providing the directions (whichever one you're using), not the simplified interface from osm.org.

... or divide by 8 and multiply by 5 :)

Time to cleanup the wikipedia:xx tags? 14 days ago

For example, on the ground, you can't distinguish between administrative entity and settlement.

I think you can. To take an example that I used in this "talk" list post earlier today:

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2016-November/077139.html

"Rossnowlagh" is a settlement. It's got a hotel and a cafe, and lots of other settlementy stuff. "Rossnowlagh Upper" and "Rossnowlagh Lower" don't have any of these - in fact when I was there there was nothing to indicate they exist at all on the ground.

Time to cleanup the wikipedia:xx tags? 14 days ago

Alas, the real world has inconsistency in it, and we have to deal with that. Wikipedia isn't "a database" it is "lots of different databases, with some coherence between them" OSM's wiki is notoriously a haven for people who want to tell the real world how to behave rather than describe it, so sometimes you have to take what's written there with a pinch of salt.

Sure, there will be examples where people have added multiple wikipedia keys by accident, but some may be deliberate, and the way to find out is to ask.

Blindly converting wikipedia entries to wikidata entries would have the same problem as adding wikidata without putting much thought into it (see https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/43749373 for a discussion of some of the issues that can occur there - a wikipedian with the best of intentions but no local knowedge missed things that would be obvious to a local).

Unfortunately, there have been so many "mechanical turk" additions of wikidata links to OSM recently by people unfamiliar with the things that they are linking that it's effectively devalued the ones that existed previously. That's sad (and is obviously a completely different issue to what you're talking about here), but it does mean that "wikidata is not the (only) anwer".

Time to cleanup the wikipedia:xx tags? 14 days ago

I'd ask the question "what problem are you trying to solve?". If it's not broken, don't try to fix it.

More importantly each wikipedia community is pretty distinct - I can imagine why a community might want to first link to a particular wikipedia language. Here, for example are the wikipedia pages for the country of Serbia in Serbian and Albanian

https://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D1%80%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%98%D0%B0

https://sh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srbija

as you can see, the maps are different - one contains Kosovo, one does not. You can't assume that all wikipedias agree with each other, and if a wikidata entry was created from just one wikipedia entry, then it'll naturally reflect the biases of that wikipedia entry.

In Kosovo's case the wikidata entry https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1246 says "not fully-recognised state in Southeast Europe" (which is correct) and "said to be the same as" "Autonomous Province of Kosovo and Metohija (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1255)", which is more problematic, because it doesn't say "said to be the same as by whom".

: ) 17 days ago

It's also worth mentioning that I'm also seeing wikidata edits locally (to be clear, not from either of the users mentioned above) that seem to be linking "not quite the same thing" in OSM and wikidata, so care is still needed. As I said on the forum link posted above it's "something that as a community we'd need to discuss", and that doesn't appear to be happenong, smiley face or no smiley face.

బాలల మ్యాపింగ్ వర్క్ షాప్, Children's workshop ##OSMGeoweek 20 days ago

Those images are 5Mb each. I'd suggest using much, much smaller ones to avoid using up everyone's mobile bandwidth!

Please remove this Spammer about 1 month ago

I have not mis-read your post. I am simply suggesting that if you want spam to be removed that you report it somewhere that the admins (who have the ability to delete spam users) will actually see it. Writing a diary entry about it is likely only slightly more effective than pinning a note to a tree in Hyde Park :)

Please remove this Spammer about 1 month ago

Rather than writing a diary entry suggesting that someone reports the spam that you find, why not report it yourself?

Cleaning up the streets. about 1 month ago

I suspect a number of these problematical names may have been left by MAPS.ME users who don't actually realise that they're updating OSM (the app doesn't make it clear at all). You can monitor and reverts to that via http://mmwatch.osmz.ru/ (helpfully written by one of the authors of MAPS.ME).

More Mysterious Markers about 2 months ago

My money's on "stop valve"...

Rules for Robot/A.I. Mappers about 2 months ago

I suspect we're some way away from worrying about "maximize efficiencies without destroying the dignity of people". :)

The only "robot mapping" I've seen in OSM so far could easily have been labelled "rubbish mapping" - it seems to involve "try and do some basic edge detection and assume that whatever has been found is a road".

A better approach would simply to ask all mappers - robot, human, feline, canine, whatever - to simply "be honest" - if you're a robot, say so, and say who your "handler" is (just like with import accounts). If you're mapping on behalf of a corporation or an organisation, say that too.

Weekly roundup - common errors and unexplained edits observed 2 months ago

Re the deleted mosque - there was an accidental node drag adjacent to it. Fixed in http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/42544694 and the next changeset. I've not mentioned it to the mapper; manoharuss is already in conversation and they're only 9 edits in.

When new values start appearing in OSM… 3 months ago

"zebra" is a type of crossing, it's not in any sense a "reference".

Mapper of the Month: SomeoneElse (United Kingdom) 3 months ago

The list link should be http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussions .

Towards Creating General Melchett's Map 3 months ago

There are a couple of problems with client-side rendering - one obvious one is that you need to have something on the client capable of doing the rendering. I've certainly seen examples in the past where even a regular desktop PC wasn't up to the job of processing the data thrown at it.

The other issue is that (excluding the proprietary options) things that might support a vector rendering don't seem very mature - OsmAnd is about the nearest I've found, and I suspect that producing data for a large area would be a challenge (and updating not an option; you'd need to regenerate). tilemaker is another option, but with major caveats (memory use on generation, lack of an "update" option). osm2vectortiles now has lots of documentation to go with it but as I understand it is geared around one rendering only, which isn't what I'm looking for.

For completeness there's a list of MB vector tile clients here but (like similar lists in the OSM wiki) there are no clues about which are "finished" and which were "ideas thrown together in a lunchtime".

Can you suggest anything obvious that I'm missing here?

Analysis of usage of similar tags over time 3 months ago

@BushmanK retagging from "wood=deciduous" to "leaf_type=broadleaved" (which was what some people were doing) was wrong!

A Suggestion to Fix Poor LSN in the UK 3 months ago

1) I obviously am not 'tagging for the renderer'. You CAN accuse me of tagging for the LSN, but that is different.

No, it's the same sort of thing as mapping golf courses as "beach" so that it it renders nicely on OSM's standard map, or mapping farm tracks in Romania as "unclassified roads", so that a particular router will use them (both of these these things have happened, BTW!).

An "admin_level=10" tag in England means that there's a parish council. If there isn't, while it may be useful to say "there is no parish council here" on a description of a relation describing the "hole", it doesn't make sense to have an "admin_level=10" tag.

A quick investigation of nominatim's results will show that “LSN starts with admin_level=10 BoundaryLine areas” isn't true either (assuming by "LSN" you mean "Nominatim"; and as I said above, that isn't the only geocoder for OSM either).

It'd be great to fully understand why e.g. https://github.com/twain47/Nominatim/issues/231 happens, but "making up parish councils" doesn't actually help fix the problem; in fact, as I mentioned in the Forest Town / Hyson Green example above, Forest Town is still geocoded incorrectly, just differently incorrectly.

A Suggestion to Fix Poor LSN in the UK 3 months ago

Re your comment above , by "intemperate" language I didn't mean "bad" language; I just meant what you probably describe as being "direct & to the point". As I've said elsewhere if you're trying to persuade people to a particular point of view then you need to try and persuade them; calling them "fools" is unlikely to win any friends or influence people.

The truth is, geocoding and reverse geocoding are complicated. In $dayjob I've used a few commercially, and it's normal to have to be very careful to structure the request going in or to pay careful attention to the data coming out. A statement such as "All the evidence suggests that no admin_level=10 BoundaryLine area means no accurate LSN in OSM" sounds very simple and straightforward, whereas in reality life's a little more complicated than that.

The first problem is it assumes that there's only one geocoder that works with OSM data. Nominatim does an excellent job (one customer that I was working for chose Mapquest's instance of it over the one native to the OS they were using because it produced better results and was easier to use), but it doesn't get everything right - as you say above it works better with areas rather than nodes. Other Geocoders do exist for OSM data (Photon's the first one that springs to mind, but I'm sure there are others).

Secondly it's not clear to me that adding "unparished" areas at admin level 10 actually helps in all cases. Just to take a couple of examples, here's a location in Forest Town, Mansfield, and here's Hyson Green Asda.

Nominatim gets the latter "correct" (after deletion of the admin_level=10 unparished area) and the former "wrong" (the admin_level=10 unparished area that you added still remains for Mansfield).

Thirdly however it suggests that we should only add data to OSM that can be understood by Nominatim (or change data already there so that it can). There's an old saw that's been around almost as long as OSM itself "don't tag for the renderer". For "renderer" read "router", "geocoder" or any other data consumer. If the standard rendering style on osm.org doesn't understand a particular form of tagging, or Nominatim doesn't understand an address, it's not an excuse to map things differently - there's always the expectation that better renderers, routers and geocoders will come along, and it's good to have the "correct" data there for when they do. You could argue of course that it's "correct" to have an admin_level=10 for Mansfield at the same level as the admin_level=8; I'm somewhat skeptical personally, but would certainly listen to arguments behind something saying "here's an area for which there's no admin_level=10".

In the case of the Nottingham and Mansfield suburbs, it's always going to be complicated. As TomH said in the first comment above, "no two people will agree on exactly where one suburb ends and another one begins", and as you said Nominatim really works better with areas rather than nodes. in the Forest Town example that's a problem - Forest Town is clearly a suburb of Mansfield, but I'm not sure I could clearly draw a line between "Forest Town" and "Not Forest Town" (even though I'm probably the most active OSMer to the area).

A Suggestion to Fix Poor LSN in the UK 4 months ago

@alexkemp On https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/41428333 and elsewhere I asked if you could "please tone the comments down a bit". This doesn't seem to have happened.

I really don't understand what you are trying to achieve here; are you trying to work together with other people towards a solution or are you just trying to have an argument? Comments such as "So, you are someone unable to admit openly/publicly to your mistakes. Very foolish" unfortunately suggest the latter.

If you really are trying to work towards a consensus then I'd suggest that an apology for some of the intemperate language used here and elsewhere (e.g. your comments on https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/alexkemp/diary/39062) is in order.