Govanus has commented on the following diary entries

Post When Comment
Latest fashions in area highways and the plan for wash common coming soon. about 2 months ago

I have thought alot about sidwalk inclusion and find it more useful for the thisgs I do and map wich relate to pedestrian facilities and class seperated roads with borders seperated and mixed cycleways and diversions into footpaths. I find adding to much to a way is going to be a problem going forward as to implement the current parking scheme I already will need to chop some short residential streets about 30-50 times for each offical change in parking allowances along its length If start choping it for other small features its going to become very unweildly and considrably less useful to routing that has to wade though more routeing ways when one cleaner one would have been faster to use. I think relationships connected feature in the areas descibed in the article would help glue all of it back into a logical data entity.

Thinking carefully about backwards compatibleity I concluded that if a system wasn't expecting something new then it wouldn't hurt too much to put a new thing where the old system wasn't expecting it to be on the basis that a system adapting to find the new thing could as happily look for it in the new place when it was in a form an old system could understand its format ie only taged ways nodes and relatiions still.

I'll pass this up when transfer it to the help sys soon i'mout of timetoday...

is this political...? 6 months ago

Looking at the map as it is on OSM today the La Linea de la Concepcion marked on the west side of the pininsular reclaimed harbour works in Spain running suspicious along close to a boundry into the sea open water in the waters controled by the Gibraltarian Goverment. The site is frequentend oftern by Royal Naval ships and submarines and so the idea of their being nothing going on in the water around there would be week Naval vesels have been to police

indoor and street gazettering 6 months ago

I think for meny you are probably right. I try to use josm offline (no picture tiles work over) then was used to reworking the alignments online to the arial data, which is where I became unstuck.

I also found little things about needing to get the latest java to run on a generaly not upgradeing machine a niggle to me too.

I've been meaning to write a vector graphic editor for a while so it was good reason to develop a new interface for working in 3D OSM a lot of the time.and also worked simply with cached versions wms tiles

I'm not to sure but I had some difficulties with using the sorting seach in JOSM but I'm now about 700 versions behind as JOSM changes so fast.

In general I think you are right that a new plugin or interface extension to JOSM would solve it for most people. and maybe I'm wrong for tring to foce it to work offline (with no available internet). I use library and work machine to transfer to the OSM system.

Good luck with your mappings,

With kind regards,


Night hospital'er 6 months ago

I've been using the indoor: system to Gazetteer flats in blocks either by outline separated with their corresponding layer/level data or just by entrance nodes were outlines are not clear to me yet.

In basic rendering the view is generally ignored unless you have a renderer that knows how to make a building plan in various possible styles from flat to isometric. big map renderers generally gloss over and ignore these but take the data into a spreadsheet or database and it gives a good postal listing like those that Kelley's used to make. As a data user this is more useful for me than say a number range especially when I try to add office or owner data into the Gazetteer which due to it being in osm allows it to be automatically to custom maps. It also helps navigation when the dwellings aren't sequentially numbered which is actually quite common (from both alterations and odd/even splitting schemes as well as say something that tries to combine floor and unit numbers from to separate ranges. The Gazetteer form just cuts though all of this and makes it straightforward and easy to work with automatically

Josm hasn't been so easy to work with for this needing a layer approach workflow to work and the online editors are very difficult to use with stacked features (think of a 40-story block of flats or halls of residence - the baseplan for most floors in the middle are likely to be very similar with most principle doors and loadbearing walls being in the same horizontal place on each one, with just layer/level/ele/height data to split them up). I have been thinking about writing a new editor to make things easier but I've had so much going on recently that I've surveyed a lot more than I've had time to add to osm lately, especially when I have to work in complex way without online editors, to get the data clear and without unwanted clashes of wrongly joined nodes.

Customised units and dwellings with variant layout features are also easy to handle like this.

-- In general Gazetteering is more useful for data users than large-scale mapmakers though interactive maps could highlight the important sub parts or jump into a building layer mode.

I read that is increasing use of osm to work in 3D on the wiki and the like. Describing where the dentist is on the 4th floor on the northern wing corridor, with these is easy this way.


In general I am adhering to the principles elsewhere expounded in OSM that: -the information provide and stored should not restricted or specially overly tailored to a specific purpose like a certain rendering engine or flight-sim such that it less useful for other users purposes. -If you don't like the rendering, change the render settings not the data per say, -if the render can't understand the difference between things add more differentiating information to OSM and not just remove things or worse deliberately remove detail such as for ways so they "store better on system x because no one renders under [arbitrary] zoom level y"!

It can be tough but it helps to make a general-purpose data set that can be used by so many people in different ways.

osm text yet to be done completed and a quick method to add direct from text 9 months ago

I tried adding them today partly fixed to fit the online data in terms of alignment alas my boss was rushing me to close and I had only just started the new josm version and thought I'd save all edits but only the active was saved my mistake for not having time to read all the closing dialog boxes.

I'd hopped to get the data side fixed in then have time to algien before the upload but this month has been to busy and hadling the foybles of trying upgrade java and josm in time I didn't really have spare didn't help either.

The result is half of the suvey data transcribed and un aligned to exsisting well half still on scrap notes, and the parts uploaded contain good data but have deliberate miss shapes to show where the alignment process with a satimage is required (they arn't currently available offline to me.

the other areas I've been working on is aspley rd and more up cross street mordlen rd some in st clements and layer work in southfield park (I'd have got a lot fin if I needed to finish tax and other finacial things in another sphere).

I will tidy the shocking quadralatuals soon...

Call to map Misery 9 months ago

I might be able to photo scetch some of the thing visable from the air if that helps though someone would need to visit for the topigraphical details and to verify any offsets that should have been available to handle the genral displacement errors in saterlight picutre tring to show above from a partly sideways view.

osm text yet to be done completed and a quick method to add direct from text 9 months ago

well that didn't seem to wook either tag confusion I guess.

I had another upload crash afewvhours back 10 months ago

Sorry for the long reply time I don't always have frequent access time with the internet as I mainly work when I visit a library, though I can also be using, when I get spare time (which is currently not too often), a non-internet connected computer running an old version of josm.

Yes I seem to have been getting various upload problems since September. I think I thought it had to do with new use of Relationships from online editors. So I mentioned it on the diary and someone looked onto it for me and found no records about it in the logs. I changed how demanding my use had been for setting up relationships as I been attempting to create totally new node & way sets with new nesting relationships which seemed to be able to get the uploader tied up trying to hold so many links to checks to things that didn't exist yet on osm (a merge process maybe). I worked into short groups of upload new ways before a separate changeset to make each relationship one by one. This seemed to work ok with the occasional hiccup. More recently I did get a browser struggling to keep up with processing a large up date of about a 130-odd new things made in id-editor and handling sort routines for looking up new entry options. As it was still busy when it tried to save it made the nodes have messed up co-ordinates, I ran out of access time before I could fix them all. The latest on was a bit of a mystery as I did edit in chrome/id on one machine changed to another with similar set up and the OSM server faulted with a error page after 20 min twice. before I had to abandon the session.

So I general I am getting quite used to it not always being a 100% reliable for uploading edit sessions.
Gaussian Processes: reconstructing the surface terrain of the UK from OSM "ele" data 11 months ago

This is a useful reminder of how diversely OSM data is used I try to include ele a bit more when I have a good source for it.

Tonights work on rail ref's about 1 year ago

bugun to refix but isn't finished yet a shame so much lost.

GeoVRML about 1 year ago

the evolving to version 2 (

Fed up with abbreviations in tags about 1 year ago

re rereading i ment to type;- ..before. So that they don't just become defacto standard, afterthoughts

Fed up with abbreviations in tags about 1 year ago

Although the i button in id is now working to solve the problem as a novice working on potlatch I found trying to find info on advance tags quite long-winded (its improving and experience helps it make more sense too) and didn't learn what a relation was for months till someone commented on a diary entry! ─íhaveing taken a while to explore that part rather than just editing..

it would have been nice to have in the editor a direct feed to place that takes new proposed tags; from the place you are about to add a new one especially if the editor doesn't recognise it. Smart editors could remember your new tags along with approval status and allow the interface to grow to help needs...

as a programmer that prefers machine code programming to either assembly or other higher programming language simply because you can't get syntax errors from bad grammar I prefer documented abbreviations that I can understand the key is getting the documentation made at the point you try expand the schema or before so that they become de-facto after thoughts. In the same vain also felt uncomfortable defining times on parking tags in English when a agreed number sequence would do like Gregorian months in Chinese are.

I think things are likely to improve, rather than worsen; as editor support, for this side of mapmaking, improves too.

Designatory grouping relationships about 1 year ago

fixed it. I also found site in the list too. I found it very easy to edit with the relationships in id now so I'm very happy selecting large dispersed logical blocks to amend tags too. and visualise the relationships. Now I just have to finish the city for it all to make more sense. Thanks again Pieren.

Designatory grouping relationships about 1 year ago

Thankyou fo that advice I chose from the list in id without a full background check I think the ist was smaller than allwed tags nd it's the first time I managed to really make it all work. So I'll swap them over now.

Offical OxCAB Tagging about 1 year ago

I should probly hunt down different loacal s/w to speed it up the conversions when not by the internet.

Offical OxCAB Tagging about 1 year ago

All my data is for accurate possitioning is based on referances to standard points registered in the British National Grid. Trying to improve it with pre-GPS techniques and a nominal series of BM's some x-refs. I hope when the time is sufficient to do it out with sights and protractors. The National Grid is easier to work with in this method; as right angles in the UK by design fit well with the Geoid used with the grid allowing me to form a plan with normal angles (and Metric distances). The Grid uses continiously changeing false or Grid Norths that all lie paralel so it self-compensates when lieing as a grid. Internationaly the Uk version's Geiod begins to distort things far from the intended work area like in south america or south africa. So other local grids made using similar ideas were made and used by the same mapping agencys when working overseas. Rather than just copy there work I hope to increase the genral accuracy (oftern +/-1m horiz and vert) to give a more realistic zoom view on osm's drived works such as addeding balconey's and protuding extensions often missed on standards originaly developed for artillary and tank use before re-use for civil-engineering. These features are hoped to make more sence to walkers orinintating themselves, etc.

The trouble with imports (translated) over 1 year ago

When I make edits I hope to be correcting or adding to things from more knowledge usally in very small sesions though I am very aware that accurate geographic alignment of meny of my new lines and points is only as a close guess with the imagary behind (often bing), even when adding feature not readably visabile in the base pictures so if someone wanted to pull them into a better alignment with reality I'd be happy. I think that sometimes the tools like potlatch etc can be a little simplistic for working with previous efforts which isn't a total critisium as they are often easier to use. Though it is worth knowing this when you don't really know if someone has already spent a huge amount of effort with gps and other servay tools to align something accuratly or simply guessed it loosly or imported from a low resurlution source.

I think that stratigicly, as the map in places does become matured with a lot of acurate data in places, this is something that the main organisers will need to consider more to avoid looseing things already done or done more accuratly but with need for minor edits or just tag data updates.

I thinkk the way that OSM already records lots of change history is a useful aid to help begin making some tools or sub-apptools to address this type of co-ordination issues.

I know if I'd taken a data via a point-field with a calibrated lidar I'd be upset if someone just re-aligned it to the mistakes in a base image.

Nesa over 1 year ago

I think it is only released on the public site if it ok to publish it for public use.

It seems mainly aimed towards potential customers usally new frieght planners as well as people thinking of doing rail tours.

There are additional publications for customer planning at:-

There dosn't seem to be a copywrite restriction but aknowledgeing Network Rail (publicly published documents) as a source would be polite at minimum. They are genraly part of released infomation. Commercial use claiming to own OSM data with it in and then creating problems for the rail industry is not likely to go down well but I think our licence already forbids that time of behaviour already.

OSM dosn't havest the data directly so it isn't quite the same as useing traditional mapping data either.

They are more worried about teh genral reliability of the Electronic version (rather than the pdf) when used for operational use. Its more a case of it being more important to make it accurate than secret.

Meny of the codes inside has appeared in other public documents including ealier additions of NESA. The main numbering looks like it is in use between 1939 and 1950's nationalisation. The gaps in the numbers indicate the lost lines that went in various decades with a lot going at the begining of the 2nd half of the 20th centrury. I think this because the smaller companies have been already absorbed though this isn't fullproof as they could been amended at any time up to the current form before the end of the mid 1960's and the loss of major regioning in 1969.

Activity 1 over 1 year ago using the above link I tried to edit what looked to be missing but font that the int_ref tags were set I think the render is being pushed and some major miss alingment ints in junctions at large scales (small coverage) suggests that the data can be simpified before relaying over a osm raster tile.

I think the data is probably ok if any see a mistake let me know.