Govanus's diary

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presonal mapping notes

Posted by Govanus on 5 November 2015 in English (English)

more detailed area maps for public customers in Britain from the national mapping agency.

Posted by Govanus on 23 September 2015 in English (English)

I've recently been tring with varying degrees of success to begin mapping area shapes of highways and more doors, walls, hedges and fences in various locations and have also attempted level [-tag] seperated indoor tags for adding addresses to multi-occupier sites like residential blocks [housing towers] and mixed retail and housing buildings with distinct 3D splits {vertically and hoizontaly}. This has led me to try adding info about the floor and roof arangements of some buildings I've been working on {see wikki pages about building_levels and roof types etc for more info in this type of tagging}.

When I visited The national goverment mapping agency for Great Britain Ordnance Survey I found that there examples of public mapping on the page:- [click to public if not automatic comming up right] I was pleased to see that the lower half of the page had a big section about the profesionaly made map of OS Mastermap Topography Layer as the top product with a lovely equvalent of a building outline with individualy numbered flats/houses built by a old posibly defence wall [there seem to be blankly marked turrets and larger building stucture built withen the walls but unattached that is marked as split into different parts now. the sidewalks and footwatways are [in OSM terms] areaised [, not just as lines [ways]].

clicking on find out more button took me to the page about it from the business and goverment section. Way down at the bottom of the page three features that reminded me things I've seen described in the OSM wikki manual and what I'd been trying to add too. They site boundries and entrances, Unique property referanceing though (I was going for the country specfic (NPLG)[] scheme and they used there original TOID scheme which is a cross between the data element ids OSM uses to number ways, ref's and nodes and something more object orintated [ie one for the whole stucture not just each point and line that may be needed to show it), and also a section talking about some thing fairly new that they are doing to measure the hights of buildings and heights of rooftops this is really intresting to me as it is something that people have requesting in various ways from OSM (I think for a lot of 3D presentaion and simulation uses. I found it good that the national mapping agency is seeing that they may actually be a different kind of market for this level of detail than they trditionaly pitched it to. I have been intrested in detailed maps for a long time which explins why I contribute, but it is the first time I seen this shift which is really encourageing as I would love to pay modestly for this kind of data done with garenteed accuracy but domsticly it used to unafforable to me so thats why I came to OSM to work a cheap and chearful alternative. but with ofset, parralax and and other complications in the areaisation process its still going to take a=while for OSM to reach global covage with similar accuracy (but with good pre-aligned basepictures and 3D image tracing added to the editor...)

I like and respect the work that my National mapping agency do. and would happily do direct survey work for them if they contacted me about such,. So I'm happy to see they are adapting to what they are seeing that people might want from domestic large coverage digital mapping. -Govanus

private bookmarks on new lane marking for complex layouts and junctions

Posted by Govanus on 30 July 2015 in English (English)

private link

Posted by Govanus on 23 July 2015 in English (English)

garages and mounuvering forcouts k-points and areaisations

Posted by Govanus on 15 July 2015 in English (English)

Fix up data, defang or remove actively broken stuff. Closed 6 days ago by Andrew Chadwick Tags created_by JOSM/1.5 (8586 en_GB) source local_knowledge;Bing;OSM Discussion

Comment from Govanus about 1 hour ago

ok I just wote a very long essey about the tags that I need left and fetures I need to restore to make the systems I use that rely them to work and the deeaper phlosiphy behind the tags I'd used but moentarilly left the edit box an the text has just all been lost. So I'll try it chunks or put into a diary edit instead. I've been to repair the broken data links but my time is short and the diversion a waste of effort.
Comment from Govanus about 1 hour ago

ok in chunked formed:-

I intended to promote OSM to the garage management teams of operators like the council, whose then system was relient on google and was so week that it had confusion-making location descrepancies on it.
Comment from Govanus about 1 hour ago

next chunk:-
I did specific site surveys to collect the marks, numbers and and names on all the garages I've mannaged to put into osm plus other that ran out of time for.
Comment from Govanus about 1 hour ago

next chunk:-
I use three fields to carry the name or number or assoiciated marks of garages and referances to teach OSM about the offical groupings and blocks used by operators to manage there garages stocks {this was to allow better data services on to the back processing of annotated website maps for customers to pick and find new garages to rent}

Comment from Govanus about 1 hour ago

next chunk:-
I use name correctly to give things phisicaly marked or written on the garages (in the same way I use the name tag when reley legend or symbols on parking spots {such as Owens Way (Way: ♿ (342095176)) })

A data sorter or renderer can filiter away these names if not requied by selecting out names from garage or parking space features.
There are different common renders that do support named garages while others choose not to use them.
Comment from Govanus about 1 hour ago

ok next chunk:-
I found some garages such as most Oxford city gargages have postal addresses, oftern with a variation to the name phisicaly on the garage (to avoid confusion with dwellings with similar numbers or names).

So where I can find these I add the appropriate regular address tags, including a addr:housename or addr:housenumber depending which looks most appropriate for the idividual garage [or bay of they ever come up the same way].
Comment from Govanus about 1 hour ago

next chunk:-
finally I may have access to internal or customer faceing records that carry a referance number or other text string or symbols. These I add to OSM in a normal ref tag; as is normal tag usage.
Comment from Govanus about 1 hour ago

next chunk:-
Now as I use the tags based on the infomation found out about the site: I may have some tags unused where infomation is not confirmed (that might get included when it is found).
...and as the tags are chosen by purpose (not just variation) they may have the same or different values based on real-world usages, of them.
Comment from Govanus 36 minutes ago

next chunk:-
I've foun it usefull to have the HGV Turning head clearly marked on maps as the concreate was originaly relaid with their need in mind, and it helps encorage lorries to use it rather than belive they will need to reverse for meny 100's of meters around tight bends (tighter since some awkward person mistook the road for a car park (originaly a banned process {delivary HGV's ruled}, then ignored by car parkers. Before being allowed in a semi-controled way)), and down a hill with children sometimes out playing too.

This is aspecially trure for those systems that don't render the areas well so not installing confidence into dispatch and drives alike.
Comment from Govanus 20 minutes ago

After a lot of debate there seem to be two settled camps of thought on areaised highways entered into OSM (yes spent a lot of effort trying to the one true path but it isn't there in way I expected).

Some think they should be like other features that get an area=yes tag included to higlight they are area ways and not linear ways. While some think special tags should be used to more easily highlight the relationship between the midway routeing line and the areas by forming a new area:x style tag to form k=area:highway. Sometimes linked with this is the practice of K-nodeing witch which with the right rendering program can developed stop, giveway and simlar features markable on the road (I've been wondering how this works with advanced stop lines that allow bycycles to get to the front of the lights to turn easier accross the taffic flow when its slow or stopped (ithink the secret is in the cycle lane areaising like an L with two effective k-points of natually differing widths),
an example where I've prepared for this is at:-

on the crossroads just outside the King's Arms pub.
Comment from Govanus 14 minutes ago

next chunk:-
So prep the routeing line to give a currently blank(latter to be tagged-up) k-point and then adopt both the area=yes feature method and the area:highway tag system (that will learn to use more of when I look at more on street area details to enter)
this approach is in the wiki along side info on k-points see the links bounceing about oxford high street for more details on this.
Comment from Govanus 2 minutes ago

Finally I've adopted a new highway tag that I explained in a wiki page before using in appropriate places.
this the highway=manoeuvring_forecourt that use for a place that is like a turning_circle, a parking_aisle (service), a driveway (service) and a yard but as it blends the other roles or is enclosed (unlike a parking_aisle (service)) it isn't clearly explaned by any other them individually, and as osm dosn't like me to dump multiple versions of the highway tag into one feature I developed a the new manoeuvring_forecourt to cover it. manoeuvring_forecourt's also oftern have implied parking and loading rules that can be better expressed on a map with some clear differntiation, so I made the wiki page and started to use it. Now I tought of making a type of service but I had thought if turning_circles get top level then so should manoeuvring_forecourt's.
Before you say they aren't supported the Humanitairian renderer dose support them as an all black feature. So they are recognised as a highway type.
Comment from Govanus less than a minute ago

Ok I out of time so I'll fiish up about the indoor problems and lugging a desktop to a public libary to be able to use josm when id and portlatch failed me will be tomorrows continuation.

Who sunk Ireland??

Posted by Govanus on 25 June 2015 in English (English)

Somone or something seems to have flooded all Ireland today in the standard rendering.

Location: Rossdorragha, Kyle ED, Rossdorragha, County Laois, Leinster, Ireland

personal link

Posted by Govanus on 24 June 2015 in English (English)

personal diary entry

Posted by Govanus on 22 June 2015 in Cree (ᓀᐦᐃᔭᐍᐏᐣ)

Oxford routes.

Posted by Govanus on 11 June 2015 in English (English)

Following complaints from local map users about an arificial demotion of a main road I spent 7 hours adding features to premote the rendering of the part-time bus gate in the middle of the road with the lorry turning circles, cctv enforcement camera plus the enforcement zone relation need now and barrier gate tag with timings and used are:highway to clearly show several islands and two one-way cycle lanes area:highway and routing lined sidewalks and lots of extra route lines needed around the traffic island and and the turning circle....

Withen hours it was demoted again. So now I can't use the map for my client today as I hoped all of my efforts would allow.

Someone had mentioned in there reson a note about a list but as no place for where it was I worte this on its changeset and am repeating here:-

Regarding the A420 as it passes through the centre of Oxford.

{{{{{ Where is the list?

I've received complaints about this road being misrepresented. Ordence Survey and Goverment Departments local and National treat this as a major road. It has been rebuilt twice this mellenium because it has become worn out with traffic use. It has so many vehicals that it can still have a traffic queue stretching from Longwall to Turl Street in the rush hour when the through traffic restictions are still in place. Its the main 24hr spine route for two of the lorry access zones. Its wide enough to take five lanes of traffic and two more are dedicated to masses of local student tourist pedestians. It collects all the bus routes from the west side of the city to run down it and around and down St. Aldate's. As the Buses act as the Citys mass transit system and the majority of people working and living in the city avoid driving to the City Centre as it is officialy discoraged through inflated parking charges and a rejection of additional private parking provisons such as adding an underground car park to a college building when its not been already...

In what sort of way is it not a major primary road???

I can understand that a simple representaion of a way running like there is no time restrictions on minority users like cars, but I have spent 7 hours drawing features to highlight and premote the rendering of the traffic gate the runs for only about 10 meters about the width of the carrageway there. Unlike in the past when it was a single line of one colour I left it delibratly as a tertiary middle (when it should be the same as the rest) to delibratly force renders to make it look different to map readers. So on this basis the Note tags should be and had had a bit more time would have been removed for being out of date. I stopped short of using area:highway tags to show the area of a central reservation runnig from the gate to just beyond Queens Lane. For the reasons noted on the notes entered into OSM at that place.

I had warned these routes were likly to be reupgraded when I got the Ref's reentered on these roads last time they went as they are used in some signs and directions espcially for lorry drivers whose delivery diagrams include them.

So where do I have to take the argument to it mentions a list but not where to find it.. }}}}}}

I minded to remove the note and change the routes back to primary to hope the they may be rerendered in time for me to copy them for my client.

The road would not work without the restictions on through traffic as it would overload like other streets currently do at rush hour. Barriers on roads should be well rendered if used for road navigation to avoid this problem and a primary with dead ends isn't unusal as they occur oftern at coasts, land borders and road numbers fragment too like the A34 which after 1930's clasifing extension went from Manchester's City Centre to the middle of Winchester (in Hampshire) today you can travel from the M3 to the M40 by Newbury on one part there are part in and just around Birmingham and other isolated stretches running near stoke and into the middle of Manchester from the south.

ok enough of being annoyed.

I hope this infomation is useful to people.

Location: Grandpont, Oxford, Oxfordshire, South East, England, United Kingdom

personal link

Posted by Govanus on 2 June 2015 in English (English)

personal links

Posted by Govanus on 25 May 2015 in English (English)

todays surveys in oxford UK

Posted by Govanus on 11 March 2015 in English (English)

I've just been out checking the latest situation around south-west central oxford for just over the last 4 hours. I found the new roundabouts and new carparks assess the surfacing and layouts , checked the new junction chnages there and closer to glosterg green and the ashmolean, and finished of with a new look at the westgate site.

I've looked at the entries on OSM for some of the new features and I think I wil upgrade the roundabouts (based on sinage traffic movements and local phase diagrams at st frideswide square.

I'll also want to add details of new huts and bouth double decking and plastic surfaceing (a part out the back near the river) at the ice rink.

I also intend to look at the turn permission changes at glostergreen area including the mid junction cycle facilitiey.

Though after so long walking around the sites I may run out of time to complete much tonight :(

but can be able to do some more tomorrow hopefully....

Location: Jericho, Oxford, Oxfordshire, South East, England, United Kingdom

Wesgate roads in Oxford United Kingdom

Posted by Govanus on 10 March 2015 in English (English)

the permision was apporved and availble from the Central State goverment's Department of Transport Case worker section contactable in Newcastle-upon Tyne. address details are on the barriers and I tryed to film them today but not yet rady to view yet... please tray to do the bus re routeing as I'm less experianced at that and may be a while till I'm on the internet again. buses follow the open roads marked. (ie not as construction. Most under the constuction tag have barriers to block them off at the moment though I did stert to add some there are others present the western site is largly leveled by mid-day today and large pipes stred toward the SW someway from the edge of the site.

Location: Grandpont, Oxford, Oxfordshire, South East, England, United Kingdom

Latest reconfiguration at the plain.

Posted by Govanus on 5 March 2015 in English (English)

Roadworks are active at "The Plain" today.

The current basic scheme is designed to make the former graveyard/village-green into a pro-bicyle roundabout with the removal of the old bus stop come parking bay next to the Waynflete Building probably better reckognised by the level 0 shop that used to sell wine and is now a "Sainsbury's" supermarket. {though the surfacing is likly to confuse as the there is a differentiation were the bay may still be though it is rasied to the footway hight. This streamlines the heavy foot traffic from haveing to detour around the bay. The footway has also been widened in the narrow parts and speacial alingment

contontue tomorrow. out of time today.

Location: Grandpont, Oxford, Oxfordshire, South East, England, United Kingdom

Westgate centre oxford UK

Posted by Govanus on 5 March 2015 in English (English)

well I've done some more surveying and am looking at what is best for all the bus routes that are now going the wrong way. Strangely OSM seems to have the bus route a little confused even before the disruption (just from the current , so it might have been more correct before); as the bus stands at the top of Norfolk Street are absent. Though now they aren't lickly to be in use.

 Norfolk streets Eastern edge now abuts directly to grass as the highway looks to have been relain wider (maybe why the buses are shown going down the otherside (Old Greayfriers) only.  Pedestrians are blocked from using Norfolk street though an access path has been created by barriers erected along the western side of the western footway (therefore only along access to the east side and frontages, but only as far south as the blaocked end of Abby Place.

The A420 at the south end of Norfolk street dosen't logicly exsist as the north carageway of the previously downgraded dual carrageway is blocked off totally and no turn from oxpens road is possible eventually these going to be an underground carpark entrance around this old junction but for now with the southern (north-south section running down the west side) of old greayfriars out of use too {apart from the footway} [note the block starts on the west side of the level -2 goods entrance/exit under the "Bridgelink Mall" footway that used to connect to the Shops to car park (at level 0) over the road (running at level -2), then ends at the turn with turn at speedwell Street]

This means that all the buses go down speed well then instead of turnin north go into a two single lane dual carrage way specially built on the lands were oxpens road's North carrage way and the old carpark service lane and spare land that was left isolated after the thinning of the A420 (it was part of the now abondoned inner ring road scheme) before taking a tight turn into the south of Norfolk Street. special tip shed load and ramp warning signs are on the bend to Nrfolk strre and the end of speedwell street where some paths do a tight cicane then up a bump to get around.

I thinking maybe to convert highway tags to suspended_highway tags to avoid too much premature deleation that might reek realationship havoc before I or someone else can rectify it all. If someone has a better tagging sceme for active and dynamic roadworks let me know.

Also on my update radr is the works currently being doon at the plain....

Location: Grandpont, Oxford, Oxfordshire, South East, England, United Kingdom

Latest fashions in area highways and the plan for wash common coming soon.

Posted by Govanus on 15 October 2014 in English (English)

I've been a bit more away from osm in the last week than I planned so apologies for those waiting for bit from me. I've not forgotten!

I'm planning to do the whole of wash common's roads in a big stint very soon.

I began in the area before I'd learnt about area highways. so the results became a bit strange (footpaths narrow and road surfaces very wide creating mismatchings and dislocated sidewalk features that tried to join the footpaths. Then when I tried to add area highways using the early area=highway type tagging it fell foul of mentors auto-validator and the "corrections actually messed up in some renders as mentor tagged the with a lot of highway tags to confuse things. The key reason why they weren't suppose to be added in the first place. So I gave up on Wash common for a while to see if mentor would finish the site off, (I had other fish to fry too). But nothing seems to have been added and parts are just looking like a mess so I need to go back and get it done properly.

As area highways and sidewalk tagging seem to have been a moving target to draw with I was going to put a general question out on the help wiki to find out what the consensus is at the moment on this apparently such an awkward feature (most maps I commercially use just use vectors to show edges of things and then the space between the "edges" of the same type become areas or a seeding dot or simplified routing line to carry the pathing logic in a cheap way.

Features I want to look at is:-

Roadscape feature edges: the sides of islands, verges and special contraflow barriers Roadscape surfacing areas: patches of surface treatments from special grip and colour coats (common in the UK the former near problem junctions, and the latter to help highlight use restrictions - through to - major surface material changes (such as a bare concrete busstop or parking bay alongside a tarmac carriageway - or on "sidewalks" the awkward [see wheeled carts etc] patches of cobbling styles at entrances and by certain buildings the interrupt the smoother paving slabs on the rest of the sidewalk. Parking bay areas: some jurisdictions like the ones I map draw very specific boxes on the highway that parking is allowed and nowhere else [for the stretch they cover - however short]. So it would be nice to convey the areas on the highway you could park when doing a area for the featured highway. Lanes areas: These could be special rules spaces like fire lanes in the U.S. or bus, cycle, taxi only lane in the UK and elsewhere. -- or by simple extension defined lanes in the carriageway [often when painted to rules] :: features about lane boundary crossing rule makings could be added on the edges of these if people wanted to add that type of information.

Highway boundaries physical: the limits of landuse dedicated to the highway inclusive of all the features including ditches and verges - solves the strange debate of what to map other landuse areas to when the edge runs alongside the road. Highway boundaries legal: the edge limits of what a highway authority has the power allow the right of passage to the public or to control parking etc isn't always the same thing as the edge of a sidewalk or fence line sometimes neighbouring property places more pavement on the edge of the highway to improve the interface between the site and highway users such outside shops or for private parking. Sometimes these get marked in special ways while others they are only given in landowner to landowner agreements such as rents paid to allow the highway use of parts of private land that is only defined in a contract between the parties and nothing is on the road. Carriageway edges:it might be useful to have a logical way to bond a relationship of lanes or just to map a carriageway without its lanes to start with.

Crossing limits: there can be highly marked areas on some roads where pedestrians (and sometimes bicycles and horses are supposed to cross in. rendering these can improve user comprehension (especially when multipathing is defined (horse and cycle segregation on the crossing)). it may also render well to similar features like bridleways approaching the road.

There seems also a lot of evidence that defining junction space on both carriageways and separately out the highway boundaries is also important for some users the later is often used like a navigating place name especially when roads are not named but the junctions are instead. [look in the wiki for examples about these]

The more to add street furniture already in osm in more precise location becomes easier to like lamps, postboxes, telephone boxes and kiosks.


When would this be most relevant? When guiding pedestrians (especially the disabled), parking motorists, and when make entrance maps for flyers and brochures. It also looks good alongside transition to indoor mapping systems at normally smaller scales.

The way to look at it is to stand next to a busy road and think of as not just a road but imagine it was part of a park (as in the green grass urban variety) and to map the complex of features you can find in the roadscape around you.

a god exaple I found was this and this earlier started proposal that takes up were the approach I first adopted left off is also useful to show how people are also aproaching the problem. I'm out of time tonight but I may try sending this to the help wiki soon to get some feed back by all those that scour that system.

Location: Newbury CP, Newbury, West Berkshire, South East, England, United Kingdom

last contribution in full.

Posted by Govanus on 6 October 2014 in English (English)

A tough fix to the Kennet centre in Newbury (begun). the offset problem on the structure is quite severe and contributers don't seem to agree on it I picked the roads and mapped the whole thing in one offest setting a lot of features need to be shifted and converted to indoor types. I've pdf's of the new shopping and residentual area to the north but rasteriseing and importing is delay behind other things and not being able to use the latest josm anymore...

note to self

Posted by Govanus on 3 October 2014 in English (English)

full entry for last edit

Posted by Govanus on 3 October 2014 in English (English)

tried to add some sense of features that are in the north west harbour area of gilbraltar and there effect on what seems at least on OSM as a disputed border.I hope I managed to get the relationships right though it would be good for someone with more experiance of these to check it went in the right order.

Location: Winston Churchill Avenue, Gibraltar

todays edit long version

Posted by Govanus on 2 October 2014 in English (English)

assorted detail adds near yeasterdays work. reinstating steadily removed details removed on "stylistic grounds" ok some parralax and offset problems exsisted but they only needed shifting to fit a good alignment. Walter's Row is to have the gates moved to the back the front hedgeing added soon.

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