Govanus's diary

Recent diary entries

US global primary polling sites

Posted by Govanus on 1 March 2016 in English (English)

I did the mapping of todays and tomorrows (local time) Supertuesday Democrat Primary polling station for my local mapping area (in oxford) at:-

I set up opening times so it should auto close on your maps after this round but I hope to copy data to OHM before I delete it from OSM.

There are several sites in this european [EU] state for more info try:-

tagging inspired and adapted from:- and

as the second site was unsetup today and based in a reastrant I tagged the place with a point for now...

extended changeset note

Posted by Govanus on 22 February 2016 in English (English)

some station details with interpretaed sources of note some alignment refinement is needed from a site visit but I hope to give functional start with things linking up. Ivistited this place some time ago and so I get the basic feel of what the diagrams are discribeing. much of the underground sections are based on cut and cover constuction under widened highways. there are multiple entances around road junctions and a top floor to the station that is oftern free to allow it to work as a pedestion crossing for the junction this site works as two with barriers across the mid part. this level or the lower one may hose an emergancy market {its still a war zone} beneth that is barrier gate and control room and beneath come vaorious platfrom levels. Haveing said that there is varity it the layout but this is oftern a logical order espcialy in the older middle bit. Some sections run above ground like crossing some rivers and some high level stations like at least one in the north east of the middle. Loosely based on US insperations like new york and chicago. Its young being about 40 years old but well established and expanding still.

Location: Jungang-ro, Burimdong, Gwacheon, Gyeonggi-do, South Korea

Method of dealing with traffic signs, on islands in, and by areaised highways

Posted by Govanus on 2 February 2016 in English (English)

I copied this into my userdairy to make it easier for people with questions about my use of traffic signs on island on areaised highways to find my reasoning. It was writen in responce to someone stuggling and deleting and modifing them stating as part of the conversation:-

I've corrected two of them, the last one is here: Please read again regarding the use of highway=traffic_sign on a way / node and see this changeset

I think they had some fixed rules based on pre areaised uses that needed to be adapted to make sence of areaised highways <--This is a new page I just found and am yet to study (ie not read before below was written...) <---This to also has new parts I'm yet to study too (for the same reason)

Comment from Govanus less than a minute ago

this sign was a very large direction sign. Somehow this needs to be a relation and not a phiscial way according to:- which is confusing to do to a real object rather than a virtual sat-nav indicator. there seems a lot of confusion possible till you realise that there are two functions of defining and indicating traffic signs in OSM Function 1: Alert the navigation system that a traffic rule is in action in a place or part of the road. Function 2: To indicate the location of street furniture used to make a physical sign displaying infomation to road users.

In simply mapped areas using a single way for everything then tags fit to way sections for function 1, and a point, with point specific tagging, carries function 2. Its been debated wether the point goes on and into the way (as all is 1-dimensional) or by the side like a more 2-dimensional form. The obvious over sign has hight seperating layering style tags to avoid confusion.

Now in more complex and more detailed mapping used for small area rendering like doorway approches etc meny line features gain full areas and it is logical to make point features of flat objects into lines carring the same tagging to give the same meaning especialy when signs become 10 meters tall and twice the width of the sidewalk like on the southen bypass. there are also box bolard signs used along this road when the flat ones where crashed into that was a cheap replacement. they may apper as tiny squares after being areaised the four faces can carry different signs when needed too (though I don't think the replacement one here dose and carries a non-sign on one side a black rimed white circle).

The function1 role for the traffic_sign UK:610 is given by forceing a split of the routing line at the correct spot to obay it, in an areaised highway. Remeber that the road now has lots of width as well as length and the routing line needs to follow the middle of the carrage way and not run over the sidewalk lamps and poles just drwan in the middle of the road, and this is the natural way to guide cars and busses past the features too (when some one measures the lane width changes and gives it in lane features it will make more sence too that lorries can take a staighter course but the routing line needs to fllow the middle for the logic of so meny other tags that get dumped on it. so that's why I drew them as I did. reading the wiki still dosn't seem to put this into question (especialy if you take the licence to convert points to ways when converting ways to areas when this make most sence when scaled to the phisical feature (ie the same size as real life)

The problem with this direction sign (in is that direction signs don't commonly carry a common referance standard-drawing number in the pointed too offical traffic_sign manual because the signs a composed on a custom to site basis following some layout rules on stuff like spaceings and line widths and angles etc. So the function 2 tagging so far seems absent as only the function 1 seems covered so this sign needs to be here to be added to a form of more virtual sign defined here:- possibly as a new role type of physical sign board or something...

The sign contains sub signs too as well a very long winded textual execption list that will probably need a lot of special use of clausual tags (more common to parking) on top of this there is question make about the intergation this with lane tagging and/or diffend marking as although these are ghost lanes only the tagging for laneing carries a lot of this infomation on lane use and possible extions of the inclusion of detination tagging to complement this signs intentions, this is fitting more of the function 1 role. Finally the question of how to intergrate possible lane features that may be drawn in future into any relation for Is another question that will probably be answered as a yes included.

As I had run out of time for this doing the other 100 features needing offset correction I drew a simple sign board so it could at least be used for function 2 pedestrian navigation uses on the sidewalk (like "oh yes I'm here; because overthere's that huge sign shown on my map"). Also others might feel like finishing the puzzel for me as it wasn't finished.

Location: Grandpont, Oxford, Oxfordshire, South East, England, United Kingdom

personal electrical location info links

Posted by Govanus on 26 January 2016 in English (English)

these are some links I may use to help with cross-refenced data checkeing about the electric supply in areas I map the mapsdon't show the smallest voltage substations as they are very numourus and I guess may be semi-bypassed on a back feed.

In the UK verious enviromental based iniciatives have seen the need for the uk electrical distribution network that had once been organised with a top-down economies of very large approch start to be able backfeed for people originaly just supplied to one of these pages shows that current spare capacity to achive that for a new generator. Of course SSE will probably provide more capacity if requested with potentialy network enhancement costs which could cost more than a basic backfeed as well as the addtional time for new cables,trenches,towers and transformers to be built into the system. The other is a map of declared power cuts, small ones happen a lot from oftern from things going on around infrastucture like digging and things simply bashing into overhead lines, etc. the effect of cold weather is designed into the system but things not design to handle high winds like cars, trees and rubbish bins can crash into strained lines during high winds as if hurled by a battury of catapults in an anchient battlefield. Floods also cause headaces but works are underway in some places to impove isolastion from flood water through rasing or encapsulation.

personal mapping links

Posted by Govanus on 11 January 2016 in English (English)

presonal mapping notes

Posted by Govanus on 5 November 2015 in English (English)

more detailed area maps for public customers in Britain from the national mapping agency.

Posted by Govanus on 23 September 2015 in English (English)

I've recently been tring with varying degrees of success to begin mapping area shapes of highways and more doors, walls, hedges and fences in various locations and have also attempted level [-tag] seperated indoor tags for adding addresses to multi-occupier sites like residential blocks [housing towers] and mixed retail and housing buildings with distinct 3D splits {vertically and hoizontaly}. This has led me to try adding info about the floor and roof arangements of some buildings I've been working on {see wikki pages about building_levels and roof types etc for more info in this type of tagging}.

When I visited The national goverment mapping agency for Great Britain Ordnance Survey I found that there examples of public mapping on the page:- [click to public if not automatic comming up right] I was pleased to see that the lower half of the page had a big section about the profesionaly made map of OS Mastermap Topography Layer as the top product with a lovely equvalent of a building outline with individualy numbered flats/houses built by a old posibly defence wall [there seem to be blankly marked turrets and larger building stucture built withen the walls but unattached that is marked as split into different parts now. the sidewalks and footwatways are [in OSM terms] areaised [, not just as lines [ways]].

clicking on find out more button took me to the page about it from the business and goverment section. Way down at the bottom of the page three features that reminded me things I've seen described in the OSM wikki manual and what I'd been trying to add too. They site boundries and entrances, Unique property referanceing though (I was going for the country specfic (NPLG)[] scheme and they used there original TOID scheme which is a cross between the data element ids OSM uses to number ways, ref's and nodes and something more object orintated [ie one for the whole stucture not just each point and line that may be needed to show it), and also a section talking about some thing fairly new that they are doing to measure the hights of buildings and heights of rooftops this is really intresting to me as it is something that people have requesting in various ways from OSM (I think for a lot of 3D presentaion and simulation uses. I found it good that the national mapping agency is seeing that they may actually be a different kind of market for this level of detail than they trditionaly pitched it to. I have been intrested in detailed maps for a long time which explins why I contribute, but it is the first time I seen this shift which is really encourageing as I would love to pay modestly for this kind of data done with garenteed accuracy but domsticly it used to unafforable to me so thats why I came to OSM to work a cheap and chearful alternative. but with ofset, parralax and and other complications in the areaisation process its still going to take a=while for OSM to reach global covage with similar accuracy (but with good pre-aligned basepictures and 3D image tracing added to the editor...)

I like and respect the work that my National mapping agency do. and would happily do direct survey work for them if they contacted me about such,. So I'm happy to see they are adapting to what they are seeing that people might want from domestic large coverage digital mapping. -Govanus

private bookmarks on new lane marking for complex layouts and junctions

Posted by Govanus on 30 July 2015 in English (English)

private link

Posted by Govanus on 23 July 2015 in English (English)

garages and mounuvering forcouts k-points and areaisations

Posted by Govanus on 15 July 2015 in English (English)

Fix up data, defang or remove actively broken stuff. Closed 6 days ago by Andrew Chadwick Tags created_by JOSM/1.5 (8586 en_GB) source local_knowledge;Bing;OSM Discussion

Comment from Govanus about 1 hour ago

ok I just wote a very long essey about the tags that I need left and fetures I need to restore to make the systems I use that rely them to work and the deeaper phlosiphy behind the tags I'd used but moentarilly left the edit box an the text has just all been lost. So I'll try it chunks or put into a diary edit instead. I've been to repair the broken data links but my time is short and the diversion a waste of effort.
Comment from Govanus about 1 hour ago

ok in chunked formed:-

I intended to promote OSM to the garage management teams of operators like the council, whose then system was relient on google and was so week that it had confusion-making location descrepancies on it.
Comment from Govanus about 1 hour ago

next chunk:-
I did specific site surveys to collect the marks, numbers and and names on all the garages I've mannaged to put into osm plus other that ran out of time for.
Comment from Govanus about 1 hour ago

next chunk:-
I use three fields to carry the name or number or assoiciated marks of garages and referances to teach OSM about the offical groupings and blocks used by operators to manage there garages stocks {this was to allow better data services on to the back processing of annotated website maps for customers to pick and find new garages to rent}

Comment from Govanus about 1 hour ago

next chunk:-
I use name correctly to give things phisicaly marked or written on the garages (in the same way I use the name tag when reley legend or symbols on parking spots {such as Owens Way (Way: ♿ (342095176)) })

A data sorter or renderer can filiter away these names if not requied by selecting out names from garage or parking space features.
There are different common renders that do support named garages while others choose not to use them.
Comment from Govanus about 1 hour ago

ok next chunk:-
I found some garages such as most Oxford city gargages have postal addresses, oftern with a variation to the name phisicaly on the garage (to avoid confusion with dwellings with similar numbers or names).

So where I can find these I add the appropriate regular address tags, including a addr:housename or addr:housenumber depending which looks most appropriate for the idividual garage [or bay of they ever come up the same way].
Comment from Govanus about 1 hour ago

next chunk:-
finally I may have access to internal or customer faceing records that carry a referance number or other text string or symbols. These I add to OSM in a normal ref tag; as is normal tag usage.
Comment from Govanus about 1 hour ago

next chunk:-
Now as I use the tags based on the infomation found out about the site: I may have some tags unused where infomation is not confirmed (that might get included when it is found).
...and as the tags are chosen by purpose (not just variation) they may have the same or different values based on real-world usages, of them.
Comment from Govanus 36 minutes ago

next chunk:-
I've foun it usefull to have the HGV Turning head clearly marked on maps as the concreate was originaly relaid with their need in mind, and it helps encorage lorries to use it rather than belive they will need to reverse for meny 100's of meters around tight bends (tighter since some awkward person mistook the road for a car park (originaly a banned process {delivary HGV's ruled}, then ignored by car parkers. Before being allowed in a semi-controled way)), and down a hill with children sometimes out playing too.

This is aspecially trure for those systems that don't render the areas well so not installing confidence into dispatch and drives alike.
Comment from Govanus 20 minutes ago

After a lot of debate there seem to be two settled camps of thought on areaised highways entered into OSM (yes spent a lot of effort trying to the one true path but it isn't there in way I expected).

Some think they should be like other features that get an area=yes tag included to higlight they are area ways and not linear ways. While some think special tags should be used to more easily highlight the relationship between the midway routeing line and the areas by forming a new area:x style tag to form k=area:highway. Sometimes linked with this is the practice of K-nodeing witch which with the right rendering program can developed stop, giveway and simlar features markable on the road (I've been wondering how this works with advanced stop lines that allow bycycles to get to the front of the lights to turn easier accross the taffic flow when its slow or stopped (ithink the secret is in the cycle lane areaising like an L with two effective k-points of natually differing widths),
an example where I've prepared for this is at:-

on the crossroads just outside the King's Arms pub.
Comment from Govanus 14 minutes ago

next chunk:-
So prep the routeing line to give a currently blank(latter to be tagged-up) k-point and then adopt both the area=yes feature method and the area:highway tag system (that will learn to use more of when I look at more on street area details to enter)
this approach is in the wiki along side info on k-points see the links bounceing about oxford high street for more details on this.
Comment from Govanus 2 minutes ago

Finally I've adopted a new highway tag that I explained in a wiki page before using in appropriate places.
this the highway=manoeuvring_forecourt that use for a place that is like a turning_circle, a parking_aisle (service), a driveway (service) and a yard but as it blends the other roles or is enclosed (unlike a parking_aisle (service)) it isn't clearly explaned by any other them individually, and as osm dosn't like me to dump multiple versions of the highway tag into one feature I developed a the new manoeuvring_forecourt to cover it. manoeuvring_forecourt's also oftern have implied parking and loading rules that can be better expressed on a map with some clear differntiation, so I made the wiki page and started to use it. Now I tought of making a type of service but I had thought if turning_circles get top level then so should manoeuvring_forecourt's.
Before you say they aren't supported the Humanitairian renderer dose support them as an all black feature. So they are recognised as a highway type.
Comment from Govanus less than a minute ago

Ok I out of time so I'll fiish up about the indoor problems and lugging a desktop to a public libary to be able to use josm when id and portlatch failed me will be tomorrows continuation.

Who sunk Ireland??

Posted by Govanus on 25 June 2015 in English (English)

Somone or something seems to have flooded all Ireland today in the standard rendering.

Location: Rossdorragha, Kyle ED, Rossdorragha, County Laois, Leinster, Ireland

personal link

Posted by Govanus on 24 June 2015 in English (English)

personal diary entry

Posted by Govanus on 22 June 2015 in Cree (ᓀᐦᐃᔭᐍᐏᐣ)

Oxford routes.

Posted by Govanus on 11 June 2015 in English (English)

Following complaints from local map users about an arificial demotion of a main road I spent 7 hours adding features to premote the rendering of the part-time bus gate in the middle of the road with the lorry turning circles, cctv enforcement camera plus the enforcement zone relation need now and barrier gate tag with timings and used are:highway to clearly show several islands and two one-way cycle lanes area:highway and routing lined sidewalks and lots of extra route lines needed around the traffic island and and the turning circle....

Withen hours it was demoted again. So now I can't use the map for my client today as I hoped all of my efforts would allow.

Someone had mentioned in there reson a note about a list but as no place for where it was I worte this on its changeset and am repeating here:-

Regarding the A420 as it passes through the centre of Oxford.

{{{{{ Where is the list?

I've received complaints about this road being misrepresented. Ordence Survey and Goverment Departments local and National treat this as a major road. It has been rebuilt twice this mellenium because it has become worn out with traffic use. It has so many vehicals that it can still have a traffic queue stretching from Longwall to Turl Street in the rush hour when the through traffic restictions are still in place. Its the main 24hr spine route for two of the lorry access zones. Its wide enough to take five lanes of traffic and two more are dedicated to masses of local student tourist pedestians. It collects all the bus routes from the west side of the city to run down it and around and down St. Aldate's. As the Buses act as the Citys mass transit system and the majority of people working and living in the city avoid driving to the City Centre as it is officialy discoraged through inflated parking charges and a rejection of additional private parking provisons such as adding an underground car park to a college building when its not been already...

In what sort of way is it not a major primary road???

I can understand that a simple representaion of a way running like there is no time restrictions on minority users like cars, but I have spent 7 hours drawing features to highlight and premote the rendering of the traffic gate the runs for only about 10 meters about the width of the carrageway there. Unlike in the past when it was a single line of one colour I left it delibratly as a tertiary middle (when it should be the same as the rest) to delibratly force renders to make it look different to map readers. So on this basis the Note tags should be and had had a bit more time would have been removed for being out of date. I stopped short of using area:highway tags to show the area of a central reservation runnig from the gate to just beyond Queens Lane. For the reasons noted on the notes entered into OSM at that place.

I had warned these routes were likly to be reupgraded when I got the Ref's reentered on these roads last time they went as they are used in some signs and directions espcially for lorry drivers whose delivery diagrams include them.

So where do I have to take the argument to it mentions a list but not where to find it.. }}}}}}

I minded to remove the note and change the routes back to primary to hope the they may be rerendered in time for me to copy them for my client.

The road would not work without the restictions on through traffic as it would overload like other streets currently do at rush hour. Barriers on roads should be well rendered if used for road navigation to avoid this problem and a primary with dead ends isn't unusal as they occur oftern at coasts, land borders and road numbers fragment too like the A34 which after 1930's clasifing extension went from Manchester's City Centre to the middle of Winchester (in Hampshire) today you can travel from the M3 to the M40 by Newbury on one part there are part in and just around Birmingham and other isolated stretches running near stoke and into the middle of Manchester from the south.

ok enough of being annoyed.

I hope this infomation is useful to people.

Location: Grandpont, Oxford, Oxfordshire, South East, England, United Kingdom

personal link

Posted by Govanus on 2 June 2015 in English (English)

personal links

Posted by Govanus on 25 May 2015 in English (English)

todays surveys in oxford UK

Posted by Govanus on 11 March 2015 in English (English)

I've just been out checking the latest situation around south-west central oxford for just over the last 4 hours. I found the new roundabouts and new carparks assess the surfacing and layouts , checked the new junction chnages there and closer to glosterg green and the ashmolean, and finished of with a new look at the westgate site.

I've looked at the entries on OSM for some of the new features and I think I wil upgrade the roundabouts (based on sinage traffic movements and local phase diagrams at st frideswide square.

I'll also want to add details of new huts and bouth double decking and plastic surfaceing (a part out the back near the river) at the ice rink.

I also intend to look at the turn permission changes at glostergreen area including the mid junction cycle facilitiey.

Though after so long walking around the sites I may run out of time to complete much tonight :(

but can be able to do some more tomorrow hopefully....

Location: Jericho, Oxford, Oxfordshire, South East, England, United Kingdom

Wesgate roads in Oxford United Kingdom

Posted by Govanus on 10 March 2015 in English (English)

the permision was apporved and availble from the Central State goverment's Department of Transport Case worker section contactable in Newcastle-upon Tyne. address details are on the barriers and I tryed to film them today but not yet rady to view yet... please tray to do the bus re routeing as I'm less experianced at that and may be a while till I'm on the internet again. buses follow the open roads marked. (ie not as construction. Most under the constuction tag have barriers to block them off at the moment though I did stert to add some there are others present the western site is largly leveled by mid-day today and large pipes stred toward the SW someway from the edge of the site.

Location: Grandpont, Oxford, Oxfordshire, South East, England, United Kingdom

Latest reconfiguration at the plain.

Posted by Govanus on 5 March 2015 in English (English)

Roadworks are active at "The Plain" today.

The current basic scheme is designed to make the former graveyard/village-green into a pro-bicyle roundabout with the removal of the old bus stop come parking bay next to the Waynflete Building probably better reckognised by the level 0 shop that used to sell wine and is now a "Sainsbury's" supermarket. {though the surfacing is likly to confuse as the there is a differentiation were the bay may still be though it is rasied to the footway hight. This streamlines the heavy foot traffic from haveing to detour around the bay. The footway has also been widened in the narrow parts and speacial alingment

contontue tomorrow. out of time today.

Location: Grandpont, Oxford, Oxfordshire, South East, England, United Kingdom

Westgate centre oxford UK

Posted by Govanus on 5 March 2015 in English (English)

well I've done some more surveying and am looking at what is best for all the bus routes that are now going the wrong way. Strangely OSM seems to have the bus route a little confused even before the disruption (just from the current , so it might have been more correct before); as the bus stands at the top of Norfolk Street are absent. Though now they aren't lickly to be in use.

 Norfolk streets Eastern edge now abuts directly to grass as the highway looks to have been relain wider (maybe why the buses are shown going down the otherside (Old Greayfriers) only.  Pedestrians are blocked from using Norfolk street though an access path has been created by barriers erected along the western side of the western footway (therefore only along access to the east side and frontages, but only as far south as the blaocked end of Abby Place.

The A420 at the south end of Norfolk street dosen't logicly exsist as the north carageway of the previously downgraded dual carrageway is blocked off totally and no turn from oxpens road is possible eventually these going to be an underground carpark entrance around this old junction but for now with the southern (north-south section running down the west side) of old greayfriars out of use too {apart from the footway} [note the block starts on the west side of the level -2 goods entrance/exit under the "Bridgelink Mall" footway that used to connect to the Shops to car park (at level 0) over the road (running at level -2), then ends at the turn with turn at speedwell Street]

This means that all the buses go down speed well then instead of turnin north go into a two single lane dual carrage way specially built on the lands were oxpens road's North carrage way and the old carpark service lane and spare land that was left isolated after the thinning of the A420 (it was part of the now abondoned inner ring road scheme) before taking a tight turn into the south of Norfolk Street. special tip shed load and ramp warning signs are on the bend to Nrfolk strre and the end of speedwell street where some paths do a tight cicane then up a bump to get around.

I thinking maybe to convert highway tags to suspended_highway tags to avoid too much premature deleation that might reek realationship havoc before I or someone else can rectify it all. If someone has a better tagging sceme for active and dynamic roadworks let me know.

Also on my update radr is the works currently being doon at the plain....

Location: Grandpont, Oxford, Oxfordshire, South East, England, United Kingdom
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