OpenStreetMap

Myth of Newbie

Posted by BushmanK on 26 January 2016 in English. Last updated on 27 January 2016.

Quite often you can read a reference to newbies in discussions of almost every aspect of OSM project. Someone could use that reference to say, that something is too complicated. For example - certain tagging scheme. In other cases, it is used to motivate someone, like, “you’d better translate that Wiki page, otherwise, newbies will not understand …”

Actually, only a few references like that making any sense. Usually, it’s nothing more than demagogic method to convince others. And here is why.

For example, in marketing people conducting studies, tests, using focus groups and panels to learn about target group of certain product, service or public statement. Even after that, they are not completely sure about results. And here goes John Smith, who indirectly claims, that he knows how OSM newbies think and so on, when he refers to them. No, he knows almost nothing.

There are only a few statistical studies, showing basically only one thing: spread of amount of edits (statistical or geographical). But there is no studies of behavior. I completely understand, that it’s really hard to conduct a study like that, I don’t even claim that I know how to do that. But what I’m trying to say, is that referring to newbies does not make much sense without it. Intuitive “knowledge” is not a knowledge at all.

Indeed, some people (only a few of OSM contributors, actually) have certain experience with newbies because they organized mapping parties or workshops. But is that empirical knowledge universal? Most likely, no.

For example, HOT volunteers have different motivation from people, who want to improve/fix map for their navigation device.Those who want to “help everybody at any cost” (importers of illegal data) have completely different motivation too. Lack of skill of reading in English or German also changes the situation, and if combined with overestimation of this skill, makes a disaster for translations.

Digging through these cases, it’s easy to conclude, that only a fraction of issues, usually attributed to newbies, are actually linked exclusively to them. There is another term - amateur (in negative meaning, like, “one, who knows not enough to do certain job well and who doesn’t really want to learn”), which describes the source of real recurrent issues, because it’s quite hard to convince experienced amateur to change his attitude and a manner of work.

Obviously, newbies have to learn to make usable contributions. And it will eventually turn them into confident mappers, who understand own level of competency. In general, being regular people, they don’t need any special treatment like if they were people with special needs. While many references to newbies include something, that renders them as extremely shy individuals. Likely, in cases like HOT projects, it makes some sense, because motivation of helping developing countries could attract those who are barely computer-literate, while self-motivated geeks in the rest of OSM are of different kind. But the whole OSM project is not equal to HOT and is not a subordinate of it. So, treatment should probably be different.

My claim is that currently Newbie is a mythical creature, that serves for rhetorical (demagogic) purposes. Its imaginary character is ridiculous: shy, illiterate, clumsy, stupid, incapable to learn, emotionally unstable and fragile, aggressive, ignorant, but in the same time - precious and very important for further OSM improvement and development. These epithets are not my fantasy - I took it from different statements, where reference to newbies was used for reasoning. Telling about it, I want to call for an active skepticism towards any statement like that.

Discussion

Comment from SomeoneElse on 26 January 2016 at 21:50

“And here goes John Smith, who indirectly claims, that he knows how OSM newbies think and so on, when he refers to them. No, he knows almost nothing. “

So you’re assuming that people making statements about what does and doesn’t work for new mappers haven’t ever investigated what works or not?

Do you have any evidence for that assumption?

Comment from BushmanK on 27 January 2016 at 00:35

@SomeoneElse,

First, you haven’t defined an “investigation”.

If it’s a study, similar to marketing research I’ve mentioned, then yes, I have an evidence - there is no studies on this topic, commercial or scientific, published online. There are statistical studies, similar to this one - it is relatively easy to conduct working with contribution statistics. But study of behavior and motivation is completely different thing, which is way harder to conduct - you can’t just look at changeset comment and find out, what was the motivation for it. Probably, it is possible to make one within a limited group (students, for example), but that wouldn’t give any kind of universal result by design. If someone were conducting a good complex scientifically correct study, he would most likely publish it.

If it’s less elaborate “investigation”, like, talking to several people you stumbled upon trying to fix some mistakes they made - it doesn’t qualify you to talk about all newbies being special, because it’s statistically insignificant. Knowledge, obtained in this way, is called “anecdotal”, and it could only serve as an example. You can’t build a hypothesis about people’s behavior on that amount of information, especially keeping in mind, that there are differently motivated newbies, as I explained before.

Difference between my claim about those who saying that they know something special about newbies and those who saying that is simple: I call for skepticism (which means no default trust) while they want everybody to believe them without showing any evidence.

Skepticism is not a fact, it’s an approach, which doesn’t need an evidence to be used. While knowledge about something is a fact, that has to be proven. In other words, I don’t want anyone to trust me personally, I want people to critically evaluate any claims.

Comment from Glassman on 27 January 2016 at 01:15

OSM really needs to survey mappers to better understand them. We could then working on improving process and tools, conversely, not change a process or tools when it’s actually working. Unfortunately we have this aversion to contacting users through any mass mailings.

I would really like to automate the welcoming of new mappers in my area. Right now it means watching for newbie when their make their edit. It’s not hard, but time consuming.

Comment from BushmanK on 27 January 2016 at 01:44

@Glassman,

Honestly, I don’t know, what would the best (and even just “working”) way of keeping in touch with people. And by this diary entry I’m trying to point on a situation, where even acknowledging that we don’t really know much about distinctive aspects of behavior of newcomers en masse is a step forward from mythological thinking.

But in the same time, I wouldn’t focus on newbies that much, at least, because definitely not all of them are troublemakers. And not all troublemakers are newcomers, while sometimes you can hear people blaming them for everything.

Comment from SimonPoole on 27 January 2016 at 07:40

@all, not new, many times discussed:

We not only have an aversion against mass mailings, to do so with the current user base would be at least in a legal grey area in many many countries (which also happen to be those in which we have the largest new mapper influx).

Obviously the legal bit could be circumvented with an opt-in option during the sign-up process, which however would have its own problems and would only effect new sign ups.

Comment from BushmanK on 27 January 2016 at 17:06

@SimonPoole,

Neither I nor other commenters except @Glassman have proposed mass mailings. So, I don’t see, how your comment could apply to @all.

Comment from Diwyd on 29 January 2016 at 18:28

So I am not sure of the origin of all these comments however let me say that I am a newbie - and I was trying to find out if there is any feedback provided to newbies to have their worked checked and a way for them to receive feedback. It is my desire to improve my skills - I am working as diligently as I can but I do not know how to receive feedback on my work. Any assistance in where or how I might receive feedback would be greatly appreciated!

Comment from BushmanK on 29 January 2016 at 19:34

@Diwyd,

There is no general procedure of evaluation or something. First thing you can do is to get in touch with OSM community in your area (or country). There is no general recipe for it too - some national communities (like Russian or German) using forum, some - mail lists and so on. Second thing - don’t hesitate to ask about certain tagging schemes or mapping techniques if you are not sure about something. Be specific in your questions - people will unlikely provide general feedback on questions like “Am I doing everything well?” - they usually don’t have time to investigate your changesets and every feature you’ve created/changed.

Comment from joost schouppe on 31 January 2016 at 18:11

I checked one or two hundred newbie changesets in our Belgian simple setup using the neis-one service with a Google spreadsheet. All of them got a welcome message.

I can certainly agree that to speak of newbies as a simple concept isn’t useful. The diversity in what they do is enormous : from changing one way streets to remapping entire universities. There is the occasional untagged way and other mistakes, though I haven’t got the statistic at hand.

Our little mapper-of-the-month team is planning a series of short interviews, which I hope to extend with some statistics derived from the welcoming project.

Maybe we can think of some kind of survey, I’d be happy to help (setting up surveys is part of my day job and education). The thing is, I don’t think it will be possible to get a high enough response rate to be representative. I only have anecdotal evidence of this (insert smiley), such as the 10% response rate to our welcome message (which doesn’t actually asks for response ) and the 0% response rate to our “questions for new mappers” after our last Missing Maps mapathon.

Comment from BushmanK on 31 January 2016 at 19:47

@joost schouppe,

I’m glad you agree with my point.

Speaking of what can be done about current situation, I’d say, that there are several possible things:

  • If there is not enough understanding of problem origin, this problem can even be non-existent. In this case, it’s better to focus on things we know - on “symptoms”. I mean, address common mistakes in Wiki by updating documentation with more detailed explanation. I’m trying to do that in Russian part of Wiki since I’m a native Russian speaker.
  • Conduct simple studies and publish brief results in some transparent accessible way to share these pieces of information. It is, indeed, anecdotal knowledge, but since we don’t have anything else, we have to treat it properly.
  • Express active resistance to non-reasonable claims referring to myth of newbie to make this practice look unwanted, just like any illogical claims are.

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